BOLT 12 vs LNURL \ stacker news ~bitcoin

1522 sats \ 28 comments \ @criptopanas 4 Jul bitcoin

Hello!,

I was checking Twitter and I saw some people exited about BOLT12 web site, being a static QR code to receive payments over the Lightning Network.

I'm NOT an expert in BTC or the Lightning network, so could someone explain me what are the differences between these two protocols?, any advantage from Bolt12 over LNURL?

Gracias!

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409 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 4 Jul

The main differences are:

lnurl requires a web server to be running at a publicly accessible endpoint that can request invoices from your node
- because a web server is already running, it’s trivial to do nice things like Lightning addresses
bolt12 just requires a bolt12 supporting lightning node to be running and the payer to be able to pay bolt12 invoices
- Bolt12 also has a bunch of other nice features like subscriptions and better receiver privacy.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @criptopanas OP 4 Jul

Excellent information!

Thanks

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 4 Jul

Is there a way to pay a bolt12 invoice from a wallet that doesn't support bolt12, by converting it to a normal (one-time) LN invoice using an external tool?

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @k00b 4 Jul

No, I don't think so.

140 sats \ 18 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

It's a scam pushed by shitcoiners to make lightning fragile and broken by making payments use Tor

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @pepe78 4 Jul

are you mad ?

2 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

You triggered?

44 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zk2u 4 Jul

I think he’s mad

112 sats \ 9 replies \ @MiddleWay 4 Jul

it is not forcing anyone to use Tor. it is compared to Tor because it uses similar onion messaging and is somewhat slow. but to fetch several bytes of BOLT11 invoice does not require much bandwidth, so the comment is retarded.

4 sats \ 8 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

bandwidth has nothing to do with it, it's about latency and failure probability with every hop + the added round trips

Being even a little excited for a worse version of existing UX is what's retarded

17 sats \ 7 replies \ @MiddleWay 4 Jul

Granted, I did not test it yet, because I run LND. But having to configure and maintain a separate http server for LNURLs is not easy for most users.

38 sats \ 6 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

Sure lnurl sucks but that doesn't make bxlt12 good

Kind 21000 is king, see Lightning.Pub

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @MiddleWay 4 Jul

does it create lightning addresses?
I see Umbrel folder with docker-compose, but it is not in Umbrel store?

26 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

It will serve Lightning Addresses / LNURL's, but you'd still need to reverse proxy and domain to it given how the LNURL spec works.... we do have a bridge but its not wired up yet for self-hosted pub's... the idea is to replace LNURL based Lightning Addresses with NIP05 based ones as they'd be trustless unlike LNURL due to the nature of Nostr event signing

Umbrel release is a WIP, the docker stuff has been worked on but we still need to wire up a localhost UI for Umbrel users before we can PR it to their store

Trying to get a lot done before Nashville for demo's

https://m.stacker.news/38271

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @MiddleWay 4 Jul

I'm in when you make SN use it )

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17 sats \ 1 reply \ @aeonbit 4 Jul

Interesting project. Do I understand it correctly, that this would allow me to receive payments on a lightning node, without requiring DNS / Port forwarding, etc? Similar to tor, but faster?

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

Exactly

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @criptopanas OP 4 Jul

Interesting to see deferents opinions

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @oomahq 4 Jul

Are Evan Kaloudis or the Ocean crew shitcoiners?

17 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4 Jul

Neither are "pushing it" afaik, that's a specific shot at the Fedimint stakeholders for whom it was built

I do know that Evan shares many of of my sentiments about it and has for awhile... but he's also expeditious with his users requests. He may still be a shitcoiner depending on what support Zeus gets for Taproot Assets :wink: @evankaloudis

Luke has engaged on the topic, but I can't find it because every Nostr client sucks and I don't remember exactly his response. I'm pretty sure they're backed by Jack, who also created Spiral and appointed one of the biggest clowns in Bitcoin to run that- who is a major (non-technical ofc) pusher of it... I'll chock that up to proximity of that one particular clown

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @oomahq 5 Jul

My information is that Zeus 0.9.0 will support BOLT-12*, and Ocean already implemented reward payouts over LN using BOLT-12: https://ocean.xyz/docs/lightning#blog-bottom_post.

AFAIU the "champion" for BOLT-12 at Ocean is an engineer (Vicenzo Palazzo) and I don't think he has any particular affiliation with Jack/Spiral.

*: https://m.stacker.news/38316

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 5 Jul

https://m.stacker.news/38339

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 4 Jul

Great!

This dicussion is very helpful for beginners to understand the key differences.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsMate 4 Jul

Zeus had the implemntation the other day as did Phoenix! From my understanding Bolt 12 can enable more custom routing channels and more efficient lightning channel management.

This is high level, there is alot to Bolt12.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @criptopanas OP 5 Jul

Here is a good technical explanation from Massmux. https://massmux.org/p/bolt12-on-the-phoenix-phoenixd-ecosystem

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Tutankhamun 4 Jul

BOLT12 simplifies Lightning Network payments with static QR codes, offering ease of use for receiving transactions, while LNURL provides dynamic capabilities through URLs, enabling a range of interactive Lightning Network functionalities.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Godot 4 Jul

BOLT12 is the future. Offers more privacy and is more decentralized. LNURL repeats the mistakes we made with the internet, as it provides an easy choke point that authorities can use to exert control and track transactions.

I am beyond exited about BOLT12, and don't listen to the naysayers, it works fantastic. I have been receiving BOLT12 payments from OCEAN for weeks now without a hitch, and just tried Phoenix wallet's implementation. It's gorgeous and smooth. BOLT12 frees us from havinh to compromise/choose tradeoffs between reuseable LN invoices, privacy and UX.

Give it a try, it's awesome.