Choosing a good Lightning wallet \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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111 sats \ 9 comments \ @NetWt1oz 21 Aug 2022 bitcoin

Lets play out a scenario so I can choose the right wallet to use.

I only want to consider self-custody options.

Lets say I'd like to load a LN wallet up with 4m sats to prepare for an upcoming month long visit to El Salvador.

Here are the options I'm aware of (suggest a different one if I've missed anything!)

    Option 1: Send an on-chain deposit of 4m sats to Phoenix wallet to "swap-in" and create LN liquidity (150-200 sats to send this). Phoenix charges 1% (40,000 sats) to do this action with a rough cost of $10 at today's bitcoin price. All transactions after that will be very cheap.
    Option 2: Send 4m sats to Muun wallet (150-200sats). Inbound LN transactions have no cost (I have screenshots), and future outbound LN transactions cost about .01% or less of the transaction (again, lots of screenshots).
    Option 3: Run a full node, and connect to it with the Zeus wallet. This allows you to open your own channels, and use tools like https://lightningnetwork.plus/ to get in/outbound liquidity. This has the lowest ongoing fees overall, but requires the person to be more technical, and is out of reach for most of the folks I talk to.

It feels like option 2 is the most attractive from an overall cost perspective. What am I missing? Is there a lower cost option for a self-custody lightning wallet cheaper than Phoenix?

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112 sats \ 1 reply \ @AJ1992 21 Aug 2022

Bro swap from on chain to lightning at fixedfloat.io it's the cheapest swap at any instant exchange youll find.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NetWt1oz OP 21 Aug 2022

Thanks for the info about fixedfloat!

I just checked, and not counting network fees, fixedfloat.com charges 20,870 sats to convert 4m sats from on-chain to LN. Cheaper than Phoenix by almost half, but still not cheaper than Muun.

210 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 21 Aug 2022

Wrong approach. There's no "best wallet", because we are facing many different situations and is better to be prepared for all. Also spreading your sats into 2-3 mobile wallets is better than keeping only in one and exactly when you need it... is not working as you wish. Is not about "choosing a good wallet". Is more about USING many different wallet apps. Each one could fit better in specific occasions, using specific features. https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-wallets-comparison

120 sats \ 0 replies \ @NetWt1oz OP 21 Aug 2022

Agreed, there is no overall "best" (which is why I never used that term). There could be a "best" wallet for my specific example.

What is the cheapest self-custody wallet for the scenario I listed above?

I have my primary BTC stack in cold storage. Why would I have multiple LN wallets when that comes with lots of overhead in channel fees, etc?

What are the features that are in Blixt or Phoenix that aren't in Muun? Your article is invalid since you put Muun in the custodial camp. Just because you don't understand how they use 2of2 multi-sig doesnt make it custodial. The only part of the app that has a brief amount of custodial action is the turbo channels option, and you can turn that off if it concerns you.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Modus 22 Aug 2022

This substack post is awesome. Thank you for putting it together.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @rasputin 21 Aug 2022

Have you considered Blixt (android only)? Also I've definitely been charged more than that by Muun.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @032f871641 21 Aug 2022

Blixt seems functionally similar to Phoenix. Paying for liquidity is an option, but it’s more expensive than Muun’s submarine swaps.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AJ1992 21 Aug 2022

Chdck out cctip. You can swap from BTC to SATS in their liquidity pools for virtually no fee. But do not store funds on there are they are custodial.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @NetWt1oz OP 21 Aug 2022

Not counting network fees, cctip charges 16116 sats to convert 4m sats from on-chain to LN. Cheaper than Phoenix but not as cheap as muun