309 sats \ 3 replies \ @petertodd 28 Aug
That's very misleading.
The money they "make" from curtailment is not a payment made to Riot for curtailing power usage. Rather, it's effectively a discount on their power bills. What's really happening is Riot is getting discounted electricity because unlike other power users, they're willing to shut off when electricity demand is really high; no-one is going to cut you a check worth more than your power bill simply for turning off your miners. Riot is still spending a substantial net amount of money on power.
It's likely that the $8.6m number in that article is nonsense, based on some misunderstanding of Riot's business figures. Eg that might simply be the raw amount of Bitcoin Riot happened to sell that month. Or it might be the profit margin they made that month.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 29 Aug
I'm shocked that the Economist magazine would be so careless. They usually do a better job of repeating anti bitcoin mining talking points.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies OP 28 Aug
If they continue their operations (which they will) that's a distinction without a difference. Getting money or paying less for expenses - distinction without a difference.
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22 sats \ 0 replies \ @petertodd 28 Aug
It's a very big distinction. Lots of people read articles like this and think Riot is getting some economically ridiculous subsidy; getting paid more than your power bill simply to turn electricity off, would be absurd. The real story is not absurd, because Riot's total power bill is a lot more than $32 million, so they're still paying a positive net amount to the utilities.
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14 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 28 Aug
By acting as “dimmer switches”, mines offer ercot flexibility at a price that no one else can match, says Lee Bratcher of the Texas Blockchain Council, an advocacy group. Riot reckons the industry is being unfairly targeted and that replacing mines with batteries would cost the state even more.
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66 sats \ 0 replies \ @beerussama 28 Aug
That is not how it works. It is not something that you can use, just to put miners/auditors in a compromised position in the first place. They curtail power so that people will NOT frown at miners/auditors. They will give the power back to consumers as an act of goodwill. They are spinning this idea into the darkness to make it look like that it is profitable. Miners/Auditors are not power plants they cannot control how much power they will curtail. The only thing that they can control is cutting back on electric power consumption during peak hours and when electricity supply is too thin.
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Cje95 28 Aug
Not sure if you are from Texas or not and I would have to lean towards you aren't due to the title. When the freeze of 2021 happened and the grid almost failed one of the critical issues that was discovered was that Texas needed to increase its baseload power supply. There are not a lot of quick and effective ways to do this except for BTC mining hence Texas courted BTC miners because the state has the power but it did not have the demand to make a ton of the power plants worth running all the time and turning them on/off properly takes a lot of time.
A common thing that people have said is well just build data centers but because of how this energy credit program works it isn't possible because data centers cannot be flipped on and off without damaging the chips. BTC mining was always going to be a temporary solution to the grid issue at hand.
Now going back to this article I have to laugh at this author's sad attempt to connect events with BTC mining. Hurricane Beryl is the first example used of the grid situation in Texas but guess what.... BTC miners didn't factor in at all because when trees fall onto power lines and cut the lines there just straight up is no power. Centerpoint was months and months behind on tree maintenance and BAM did it show.
With the argument of the ties to China... the big miners in Texas arent Chinese companies the are American companies a lot of the Chinese companies went to Kazakstan before moving on to other Southeast, Russian, and literally back to China locations.
Biggest Critique
These numbers are from a year ago. August 2023 for what it is worth. Here are the numbers for 2023 as a whole taken Jan 4, 2024
Now when we factor in that Bitcoin has risen considerably this year to $60k those 6,626 BTC are worth $397,560 million ($397,560,000.00) which flips even the updated data on its head.
To sum everything up... This was a hit piece that uses old data and doesn't tell the full story. Rockdale where this article is written was a dying city after the steel mills closed and Riot is now its biggest employer. Revenue from the property taxes that they pay contributes a significant share of the money the school district gets. Oh and they have partnered with Texas State University to create a pathway for students to learn about serves/miners and pave the pathway to work for the company or others.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 29 Aug
Regarding the freeze of 2021, the culprit was ERCOT? Baseload power supply shortage was caused by wind energy sources freezing?
Very informative comment! Thanks for sharing knowledge! Knowledge is power
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 29 Aug
I think there are some dueling issues that hit and while ERCOT I do not believe was even in charge at the time of some things people went after them because they were the overarching head.
Previously, ERCOT/Texas had been warned that they needed to winterize the grid for below-freezing temps. I would estimate most if not all of that wasn't done. There were some places in the panhandle that did to an extent but it turned out not to be enough.
The baseload power is the amount of power that is consistently on the grid and so when there are surges or plummets grid operators have to scramble to either turn things on or turn them off. At the time the freeze set a crazy high new record demand which baseload wasn't close to even reaching. BTC miners because they can be flipped on and off rather quickly help adjust for this dramatic change since they are such a huge power draw.
I want to say there were a handful of pretty large plants that were idled for maintenance without getting approval from ERCOT and that was a huge issue that ERCOT couldn't manage because they were not told.... Natural gas plants froze up because there is a section of pipe that goes roughly out of the ground and into the wall of the building.... these were bare pipes and warming them up isn't exactly simple cause if it gets to hot ya blow yourself up so it was a nightmare situation.
No one expected not only the state to suffer widespread freezing (the Rio Valley was in the teens... that's right by Mexico) to the Panhandle being under 0 it was significant. The wind turbines though were the wildest thing since it was the first time that high humidity (cause ya know its Texas) and below freezing temps clashed and broke even the winterized turbines. Those that didn't break were because essentially shut down.
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 28 Aug
So they earn more fiat and mine less sats?
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 29 Aug
They do not earn any fiat they receive sign cheaper electricity at a later date!
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 29 Aug
So they lose sats to gain more sats at a later date?
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 28 Aug
Archive link? I see the example they are citing is from a year ago. I guess it's safe to assume things haven't changed. I can't read the whole article, but is it safe to assume there's no mention of the benefits the miners are providing to the grid?
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64 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 28 Aug
I got ya!
https://archive.ph/IqnaT#selection-1105.0-1105.142
Like I mentioned in my comment this was another hit piece targeting the Rockdale mining operation. I want to say Forbes did one a couple months ago and there is a huge political factor at play with elections for I want to say the Sheriff who is a huge Trump supporter or something along those lines... I went into the weeds big time with that story and it turned out that it was a hit piece. This follows the same general arc and doesn't even use the latest data or at least factor in the huge change in BTC price since it is up over 100% from when those numbers came out.
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43 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 28 Aug
Does it matter? It’s the economist aka superficial talking points. Trump likes bitcoin ergo bitcoin is bad for Texas especially riot
Tom laies posted it. He only advocates regime propaganda
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @16d86e9daa 28 Aug
to my knowledge In Texas, the electricity market can experience high prices during peak demand or supply shortages. Curtailing electricity essentially reducing or shutting down operations during these peak times can sometimes be financially beneficial.
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52 sats \ 1 reply \ @petertodd 28 Aug
All true electricity markets experience high prices during peak demand. It's just an inevitable consequence of the fact that some users are willing to pay far more money than others to keep the lights on.
We often don't see this, because many electricity "markets" aren't true markets, with real-time bidding. Instead they're based on long term contracts, with the electricity providers taking on substantial financial risks because they're obligated to provide electricity at any cost during high demand and shortages.
Customers like Riot save these providers a lot of money, because they're willing to stop using electricity when the cost of providing that electricity goes up. If things were arranged differently, this would be handled by real-time supply and demand bidding systems: Riot would simply turn off their machines when the price of electricity for that moment reached an unprofitable level, and turn them back on when electricity was cheaper.
For various technical and economic reasons, true real-time bidding isn't implemented that widely in a lot of markets. So instead we get curtailment to accomplish roughly the same economic goal.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 28 Aug
Yeah Texas doesnt have the centralized markets at all. Growing up I remember my parents shopping around energy providers for the best deal then when I moved to DC and was told oh yeah no there is one option and here it is I was bamboozled
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 29 Aug
@KudzaiK
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @KudzaiK 29 Aug
Thank you for the plug!
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