Nostr relays and the removal of illegal content
559 sats \ 22 comments \ @marco 16 Oct nostr
I might be totally mistaken here, but I believe that the lack of clear economic incentives for Nostr relay operators can be a positive factor when it comes to deleting illegal content from their nodes.
As hobbyists primarily focused on supporting the Nostr network, they will take no risk by hosting illegal content.
To detect and remove illegal content (which can vary depending on local laws), they could employ AI tools. By fine-tuning these tools to be highly sensitive, they could ensure that all potentially illegal content is removed.
While this approach might lead to the removal of some legitimate content, the relay owners can find comfort in knowing that the decentralized nature of Nostr ensures that this content is likely still accessible on other relays. The network's redundancy helps to minimize the impact of individual relay errors, providing a safety net for content availability.
On the other hand, they will still gladly store controversial, offensive, outrageous, ... material. By doing so, they can contribute to the diversity and openness of the Nostr network without damaging any revenue-generating business.
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11 sats \ 1 reply \ @supertestnet 16 Oct
the relay owners can find comfort in knowing that...this content is likely still accessible
how would that comfort them? I thought they wanted to delete that content
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @marco OP 16 Oct
They want to delete it from their own relay in order not to face criminal charges.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad 16 Oct
Could be, but we could also have a relay war in the interim...
Either way Nostr will find a way!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OriginalSize 16 Oct
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't even see any regular porn which used to exist on my Global. Haven't updated my relays for a while so perhaps that's part of it.
CSAM might just be an angle to attack nostr which due to most people's distaste for it leads people to assume it exists without seeing for themselves. I mean who wants to check that! Seems to me pretty straightforward with today's clients to know which relays are sharing what you don't want to see. I'm pretty sure any of the established relays would suffer were they hit with a sustained attack of such content, so the incentives there are functional.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @flat24 16 Oct
Freedom of speech means that both the good and the bad can express themselves. If Nostr's replacements 🟣 eliminate "illegal" information or rather not suitable for everyone, because even if it is something twisted or something that I cannot agree with, what seems wrong to me seems right to someone else. If Nostr begins to eliminate information, it is taking a step towards censorship. And wouldn't that be going against its flag "the principles of freedom of expression in Nostr"?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @dtonon 16 Oct
'Nostr' does not exist as a single identity, of course, each relay does what it wants, that is freedom. The anti-censorship nature emerges from those who want to preserve and disseminate a content, not from those who choose to delete it.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 16 Oct
Problem: Pedophiles are sharing child porn over nostr.
Now that we are using clear language, what can we do to solve this problem?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @dtonon 16 Oct
Big free relays should filter CSAM content.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @B_rian 16 Oct
I am confused. Most nostr relays don't host any media. They might have a link to digital content but no content is hosted. Notes are plain text. Is it illegal to have a link to illegal content?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OriginalSize 16 Oct
It would be sharing it so yes I think so. Link destinations can change though so ultimately it's going to come down to reports and bans by users to keep those who share bad stuff from infiltrating the good spaces.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @B_rian 16 Oct
Biggest liability I see is DMCA requests. So relays need a takedown request mechanism for DMCA requests.
This could be pretty straightforward with authorized keys who can send DMCA notices or a DMCA webform on the relay homepage.
But at least relays can't accidentally cache/store CP. I'm thinking of implementing an AI nudity filter for my next relay. I don't want to distribute CP.
What concerns me is misinformation laws. It is much harder to systematically screen for ideas and doing so undermines nostr ethos.
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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @melvincarvalho 16 Oct
A relay is essentially a type of web server that uses the HTTP upgrade protocol. The rules for running a relay are no different from running any standard web server—there's no added layer of decentralization just because it's a relay. In fact, the current state of the relay network is one of neglect, with it becoming more centralized as it shrinks. It's important to note that illegal content remains illegal on any web server, including relays, and you're still liable for hosting it.
Where Nostr might offer an advantage over the traditional web is in making truthful content harder to censor. If an admin on one server is grumpy, it's easier to switch to another and continue participating without being 'canceled.' But at its core, a relay is still just a web server—albeit one with real-time updates.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Oct
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @anon 16 Oct
So you support pedophiles sharing child porn over nostr???
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Oct
I pointed out the aspect of the word "illegal" that many are using it nowadays. And not what others are posting on nostr. Do you know the difference between legal and lawful? Do you know the difference between moral and immoral, right and wrong?
Run your own relay nostr and do whatever you want. Nobody is forcing you to see those pictures if your relay is rejecting them. Nostr is not a centralized server, is open relay.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 16 Oct
Okay so do you support censoring child porn on nostr or not? The author of the post was scared and used unclear language. The real meaning is this: pedophiles are using nostr to share child porn. It is happening right fucking now, and that is a big fucking problem.
This is a very simple and clear question. If you are not in support then it's completely fucked up. Not censoring child porn is supporting pedophiles and harm to children.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Oct
It doesn't matter. You are now trying to put words in my mouth. I was talking about legal vs lawful.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rsync25 16 Oct
🎯🎯
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Rsync25 16 Oct
Couldn't this open the door to censorship in the event of government pressure? I think it's very dangerous. In any case, it's advisable to carry out your own relay.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nym 16 Oct
It does, but the relay operators are taking on liability also, so I get both sides of the argument.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Oct
Anybody is free to do whatever they want with their nostr relay. Run your own relay if you do not like others.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 16 Oct
Relays are no different than any other hosting service in terms of incentives, they're a CDN for notes.
Some hosting services cater to illegal content, like seedbox services for torrents.
Others, like business tier S3 with a terms of service, do not.
The only difference vs. traditional hosts is that Nostr uses keys/signatures so that data is verifiable and therefore can be easily distributed across redundant hosts (exactly what torrents do by using redundant trackers with hashes to ID files).
Unlike torrents though, there's a reputational lever available in Nostr because of author keys. This will allow it to become more email-like, where servers generally drop everything that doesn't pass some checks.
Email and traditional file hosting is enured to legacy DNS/IP4 limitations, and therefore not as simple to have provider redundancy, which makes service offerings less commoditized than is possible with Nostr relays.
So, while Nostr is an improvement over legacy hosting services in terms of censorship-resistance, there's no magic that makes it a different animal in terms of incentives or how it evolves service hygiene.
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