What am I missing here for Phonenixd... Should be basic stuff! \ stacker news ~lightning

What am I missing here for Phonenixd... Should be basic stuff!

388 sats \ 15 comments \ @rebel_nomad 18 Oct lightning

So, trying to attach the Phoenix cli wallet I'm not sure if there is something wrong here, if I misunderstand things, or if its just a matter of documentation not covering everything, which is normal in early phase adoption of course...

SN is not able to create test invoices, I've checked everything including ports. Have sent a couple of test payments that are listed when I boot the daemon, but where do I go from here?

This is what happens when trying to do a test payment directly in cli:

./phoenix-cli payinvoice --amountSat=5 -->invoice=lnbc50n1pn3yp35pp55kk32987n4d0r9js2th3tlduaw2c2ddxj0r8sjxqaxu38p3zmz6sdp6ge6kuerfdenjqsrjv43x2mzldehk6ctyyphkugrnw3skx6m9wghxuethwvcqzzsxqrrsssp5j7z2e9q2kays6ma44tf565zew44u30skrj8j83v4rvr3d73kcf0s9qxpqysgq5dr6mptyaf266u8r7kvqy3zuzk9527ghz5xrt5m73gmzqf7edqzzujcz05hu224khzd3pq53cqgp0ax2u9m44x5j4498teue33y84kcpwmfkla { "paymentHash": "a5ad1514fe9d5af1965052ef15fdbceb958535a693c67848c0e9b9138622d8b5", "reason": "payment could not be sent through existing channels, check individual failures for more details"

Now as I understand Phoenix it is capable of receiving right away, which is great of course!

But does the autoliquidity only get triggered after funding the wallet with 30k+ sats?

Or is something wrong with my installation, since I get an empty channel when I run getinfo:

{ "nodeId": "020d9a8feca959d1d363451b91ae93dfa850d01401c0e0aecd11b0ab3e2201bf7a", "channels": [ ], "chain": "mainnet", "blockHeight": 866165, "version": "0.4.0-36876f8" }

Now, I'd have no problem funding it with 30k+ of course, but how do I know that it will then create the channel?

Is the channel creation done as part of Lightning itself, will my install create that (or the local record for it), or does that happen on the servers of Phoenix?

This is what I get when booting the daemon:

2024-10-18 07:00:04 chain: Mainnet 2024-10-18 07:00:04 autoLiquidity: 2000000 sat 2024-10-18 07:00:04 nodeid: 020d9a8feca959d1d363451b91ae93dfa850d01401c0e0aecd11b0ab3e2201bf7a 2024-10-18 07:00:04 offer: lno1zrxq8pjw7qjlm68mtp7e3yvxee4y5xrgjhhyf2fxhlphpckrvevh50u0qd50hxvjyqy8rwmrmtjpa9csutt2w8epegeq86g0ea4vsynstfz7zqszgndcv39a8aa0t3ry5dy2jknthc9gujea0eswr85rzcs3f50gxueqqveu3ayjzh00gjlg9exe5fqj9mg2ldc8pdukvtuqgadw47jklz8hnnk5nhkmwdj6u8kgjjjsr33k4tpqectvqtwtsk2nttwhu84f4f07rwmk0haxfp2kgz49034pl745jn3pfu96xqqs3cscnejrz4vw57xzm99unugg45 2024-10-18 07:00:06 connecting to lightning peer... 2024-10-18 07:00:06 connected to lightning peer 2024-10-18 07:00:06 listening on http://127.0.0.1:9740 2024-10-18 07:00:06 fee credit: 101 sat

If I'm simply missing something obvious here then it might still be a good thing to get more documentation, there will be a lot of devs and superusers incoming who have not dealt with Lightning yet, that is my thinking at least...

Other than these unknown factors it all looks great!

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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 18 Oct

We only test if we can create a test invoice using the REST API. We don’t test if you can actually send a payment so liquidity shouldn’t matter for attaching.

Have you tried creating an invoice using the REST API with the same parameters you gave SN instead of the CLI? And what is the error in the wallet logs on SN? Does it not say more than just failed to create test invoice?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 18 Oct

I'll try REST yes!

Didn't copy the logs, it was a red popup at the bottom.

I might just take it all for a spin on testnet, we'll see, other than whatever failure this is Phoenix server looks like a great piece of software!

10 sats \ 5 replies \ @OT 19 Oct

Does phoenixd have anywhere we can ask questions?

I'm also troubleshooting some bolt12 stuff

76 sats \ 4 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 19 Oct

We should utilize the next weeks to help them get better documentation!

I'm sure that they can catch & distribute that, but a huge part of it is on us :-)

That is how open source rolls!

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @OT 19 Oct

At this point in time I might not be qualified to do something like that. All I know is that it's not working.

I does feel good to do LN transactions over command line though

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 19 Oct

In the command line things are always quiet, clear and sane! ;-)

We will get there, and soon I think!

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @nym 19 Oct

That’s true. You can see what’s is happening a lot better.

6 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 19 Oct

Thanks, and I hope that this is the way I can be useful! :-)

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 18 Oct

I suggest to start using Phoenixd with opening a big channel, like 1-3-5M sats. Your commit fees will be insignificant comparing with the size of the channel and will not affect you too much. Also instead of paying 4 times (or whatever many times you deposit small amounts) min 3000 sats fees, you will pay only once.

Then if you need inbound liquidity, just move out half of the sats into another temporary LN wallet (could be even a custodial) or just buy an inbound channel from Acinq or any other LSP.

I will never complicate my liquidity with all these small deposits as "credits".

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @rebel_nomad OP 18 Oct

There is no way I'll pay 1M sats into anything, unless I know that it works...

The same will be the case for most when adoption really gets going, I think!

Also since I need to know all the gotchas here complications are fine, paying extra fees too, I might do things like setting up webshops for customers, and then 30k "deposit" is no problem, but 1M will be harder to explain...

Of course it would be easier to risk 1M when I'm used to all of this, and in that case I'd do what you suggest, move some of it to other lightning wallets :-)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 18 Oct

There is no way I'll pay 1M sats into anything, unless I know that it works...

You do not pay anything when you open a LN channel. You are signing a multisig contract. You can close it later if you do not want it and get your sats in onchain.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 18 Oct

Aha... the daemon has some docs in help: ./phoenixd --help

Liquidity Options: --auto-liquidity=(off|2m|5m|10m) Amount automatically requested when inbound liquidity is needed (default: 2m) --max-mining-fee=<int> Max mining fee for on-chain operations, in satoshis (default: 1% of auto-liquidity amount) --max-fee-credit=(off|50k|100k) Max fee credit, if reached payments will be rejected (default: 100k)

Options: --chain=(mainnet|testnet) Bitcoin chain to use (default: mainnet) --mempool-space-url=<value> Custom mempool.space instance --http-bind-ip=<text> Bind ip for the http api (default: 127.0.0.1) --http-bind-port=<int> Bind port for the http api (default: 9740) --http-password=<text> Password for the http api (full access) --http-password-limited-access=<text> Password for the http api (limited access) --webhook=<value> Webhook http endpoint for push notifications (alternative to websocket) --webhook-secret=<text> Secret used to authenticate webhook calls --silent, --verbose Verbosity level (default: prints high-level info to the console) -v, --version Show the version and exit -h, --help Show this message and exit

I guess I should have started with testnet, or maybe setting --auto-liquidity way lower when testing would be smart, but I'm not gonna touch that right now!

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 18 Oct

Maybe I misunderstand this from the daemion log: autoLiquidity: 2000000 sat

Is this simply a setting only?

The way I read it initially I'd think its an actual channel, but that is probably not set up yet?

This is the documentation that is on the website, I guess that points to the channel being created automatically once is past 30k:

Continuous stream of tiny 100 sat incoming payments the first 299 incoming payments will be added to your fee credit when receiving the 300th payment, your credit reaches 30k sat and will immediately be used to create a 2m sat channel, with balance 0 sat on your side the next 20 thousand payments will be received in your channel and added to your balance, which ends up at 2m sat back to 1.

Is this different from the GUI version? I think I remember receiving well under 30k?

Could be something up with my install of course, that blocks both test invoices from SN as well as paying via the cli...

110 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 18 Oct

Yes, phoenixd is different than Phoenix here. Phoenix does not use fee credits like phoenixd. This means phoenixd only opens a channel after you received 30k whereas Phoenix would open a channel immediately.

This is also mentioned in the section about auto liquidity which you quoted.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad OP 18 Oct

Ah, I see... I kinda guessed that by now, but it would be a good thing if it could be mentioned early on in the documentation, I'll always manage but other new users might not get it, I'd think.

Also, if setting auto-liquidity lower initially will it then be possible to get a channel going for lower than 30k?

Been trying to find out if there is a minimum in general for Lightning, but its not very clear...

Of course I get it that they'll have to do this in order to provide a service, so no problem if the 30k is a set limit :-)