72 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 23 Oct \ on: Progressive bitcoiners on Nostr bitcoin
Its interesting to watch people that are comfortable in almost every space to find one where they don't feel that way. Anarchists and Libertarians live their entire lives being the odd balls in any large group. No one cares. They are mocked and ridiculed. When something(Satoshi) is created by a person that clearly understands the world in a similar way it will attract them first. I remember the first time I read the white paper. It blew me away. How obvious it was that this person understood Austrian Economics and the ideals of liberty.
To be fair, Nostr, Twitter, and SN are not representative of all who hold bitcoin. But I have yet to actually meet a progressive bitcoiner in person. There are some online but I'm not convinced they are actually progressives. More likely they will drop bitcoin or will move to a less egalitarian world view.
Over the years I have noticed something though. Most people just gravitate to the right or the left. These are the two choices presented. Often this is just a gut thing for them, it seems to me. Often I notice that they are all over the place on different subjects. Rarely do progressives actually understand the right. Rarely does the right actually understand progressives.
Many libertarian or liberty minded people align with progressives on different topics. Mostly around abuses of the state against our fellow humans. Most libertarians are anti-war (a topic the left used to care about). Many libertarians I know are generous and care for the poor across the world. They just have a different idea about the causes of poverty and the solutions. Few non-libertarians are even interested in investigating the ideas, let alone understanding why libertarians don't align with their ideas. There is an extreme lack of curiosity. Most libertarians either come from the right or the left. Most understand those movements. I often find I understand them better than people that claim to be on the right or the left.
It is rare I meet a progressive, or a right leaning person that understands economics. I honestly wonder how different the world would be if truly free market economics were taught to children. If instead of allowing the state to care for our neighbors, the plebs did it. The churches did it. You see, while I believe taxation is theft, that doesn't mean I only care about the theft aspect. I care that not only is money stolen. It is squandered by the state. Central authorities that lack the knowledge and incentive to allocate resources. That's not even the worst part. The worst part is that war is funded by taxes.
I know people that are on the path of being liberty minded. They are compassionate. They actually aren't progressive. They just don't know it yet. They have just been tricked into the lie that the state is us and that if they can just vote harder the world will improve.
I think bitcoin can be a tool for opening people's eyes. It is contradiction to progressive / left politics. But it will make the world a better place and help those among us that need it most. Many of us just have an issue understanding how someone can identify with the left and not see the contradiction. But really, this is why bitcoin is so hopeful. You can talk or type till you die and never convince someone to your position. But when you show them (bitcoin). Then they have a chance to see.
I'll end with this. Either you don't understand bitcoin, or you don't understand progressive (left) politics. If you understand politics I think you will find you aren't actually a progressive. Not really. There might be some overlap but its mostly cognitive dissonance.
I have yet to actually meet a progressive bitcoiner in person.
This is quite unfortunate given the results of the extensive survey from The Nakamoto Project.
They found that this perception has no ground in reality, and Bitcoin's potential transcends political divides. Data from the report:
- Bitcoin ownership is not meaningfully related to political orientation
- a typical Bitcoiner has a blend of liberal and conservative moral foundations
Of course, according to you, I'm dumb since I don't see the evident contradictions here.
At least, I'm not alone. :)
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Link to the complete report here:
https://www.thenakamotoproject.org/report
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Bitcoin ownership is not meaningfully related to political orientation
Put another way one can say that dollar use is not related to political orientation. Bitcoin isn't only going to be used by the right (including libertarians). The incentives of bitcoin will mean that people that would be opposed to the idea will use it...
Just as those that are opposed to ideas of fiat often use it because they have to use it.
I think this is the disconnect. I have no problem believing many that are on the left buy bitcoin. I just haven't met any that seem to understand why it was created. Maybe you do understand that. I suspect you do. I suspect bitcoin will change you. I know it has affected the way I think and act in the world. How I spend and save. Bitcoin is Austrian Economics in practice. You may disagree. You may not care.
Bitcoin will win if people don't care about ideology. It will win because the incentive structure and game theory play out.
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I don't think you are dumb. I once thought the ideas of liberty were dumb. I wasn't dumb at the time I just had yet to learn what I know now. I'm still learning.
I should clarify though. I have met progressives that have bought bitcoin. But they also bought many shitcoins and they don't call themselves bitcoiners. I really don't care about their politics. I'm usually the one asking many questions about why they bought bitcoin or whatever. Its usually for very different reasons from my own.
Curious what this means.
liberal and conservative moral foundations
If we are talking about moral issues most libertarians have a mix as well.