Progressive bitcoiners on Nostr \ stacker news ~bitcoin

1958 sats \ 23 comments \ @marco 23 Oct bitcoin

I started a Pinstr board featuring Nostr profiles of bitcoiners with progressive, left leaning, and reformist political views.

I’m not trying to make Bitcoin a partisan topic, it simply isn’t. On the other hand, there is still a strong perception that all bitcoiners are libertarian or rightwing bent.

Therefore, it’s easy for progressives to feel lonely and isolated in the Bitcoin world, even more here on Nostr. This board aims to foster a sense of belonging and connection among like-minded individuals.

If you identify as a progressive bitcoiner, please share your profile, and I'll be happy to add it to the board. And, of course, if you'd like to be removed, just let me know. 😉

Share this note to spread the word, and reach all progressives bitcoiners on Nostr! Thanks!

You can find the board here.

view all related items

109 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 23 Oct

LOL such bullshit

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @marco OP 23 Oct

Why?

85 sats \ 2 replies \ @teemupleb 23 Oct

How are “progressive, left-leaning and reformist political views” compatible with property rights and free market ideals and incentives?

I’m just curious because nobody has ever given me a good answer.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bee_Aye 23 Oct

my experience too ; there is no reconciling this contradiction imo

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 23 Oct

truly

143 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 23 Oct

Statism is not compatible with Bitcoin ethos. ANY "political view" is statism. Pure and simple.

The only "ism" that Bitcoin promote is sovereignism (individual sovereignty). And here is explained:

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 23 Oct

This is the way!

72 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 23 Oct

Its interesting to watch people that are comfortable in almost every space to find one where they don't feel that way. Anarchists and Libertarians live their entire lives being the odd balls in any large group. No one cares. They are mocked and ridiculed. When something(Satoshi) is created by a person that clearly understands the world in a similar way it will attract them first. I remember the first time I read the white paper. It blew me away. How obvious it was that this person understood Austrian Economics and the ideals of liberty.

To be fair, Nostr, Twitter, and SN are not representative of all who hold bitcoin. But I have yet to actually meet a progressive bitcoiner in person. There are some online but I'm not convinced they are actually progressives. More likely they will drop bitcoin or will move to a less egalitarian world view.

Over the years I have noticed something though. Most people just gravitate to the right or the left. These are the two choices presented. Often this is just a gut thing for them, it seems to me. Often I notice that they are all over the place on different subjects. Rarely do progressives actually understand the right. Rarely does the right actually understand progressives.

Many libertarian or liberty minded people align with progressives on different topics. Mostly around abuses of the state against our fellow humans. Most libertarians are anti-war (a topic the left used to care about). Many libertarians I know are generous and care for the poor across the world. They just have a different idea about the causes of poverty and the solutions. Few non-libertarians are even interested in investigating the ideas, let alone understanding why libertarians don't align with their ideas. There is an extreme lack of curiosity. Most libertarians either come from the right or the left. Most understand those movements. I often find I understand them better than people that claim to be on the right or the left.

It is rare I meet a progressive, or a right leaning person that understands economics. I honestly wonder how different the world would be if truly free market economics were taught to children. If instead of allowing the state to care for our neighbors, the plebs did it. The churches did it. You see, while I believe taxation is theft, that doesn't mean I only care about the theft aspect. I care that not only is money stolen. It is squandered by the state. Central authorities that lack the knowledge and incentive to allocate resources. That's not even the worst part. The worst part is that war is funded by taxes.

I know people that are on the path of being liberty minded. They are compassionate. They actually aren't progressive. They just don't know it yet. They have just been tricked into the lie that the state is us and that if they can just vote harder the world will improve.

I think bitcoin can be a tool for opening people's eyes. It is contradiction to progressive / left politics. But it will make the world a better place and help those among us that need it most. Many of us just have an issue understanding how someone can identify with the left and not see the contradiction. But really, this is why bitcoin is so hopeful. You can talk or type till you die and never convince someone to your position. But when you show them (bitcoin). Then they have a chance to see.

I'll end with this. Either you don't understand bitcoin, or you don't understand progressive (left) politics. If you understand politics I think you will find you aren't actually a progressive. Not really. There might be some overlap but its mostly cognitive dissonance.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @marco OP 23 Oct

I have yet to actually meet a progressive bitcoiner in person.

This is quite unfortunate given the results of the extensive survey from The Nakamoto Project.

They found that this perception has no ground in reality, and Bitcoin's potential transcends political divides. Data from the report:

Bitcoin ownership is not meaningfully related to political orientation
a typical Bitcoiner has a blend of liberal and conservative moral foundations

Of course, according to you, I'm dumb since I don't see the evident contradictions here. At least, I'm not alone. :)

49 sats \ 0 replies \ @marco OP 23 Oct

Link to the complete report here: https://www.thenakamotoproject.org/report

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Oct

Bitcoin ownership is not meaningfully related to political orientation

Put another way one can say that dollar use is not related to political orientation. Bitcoin isn't only going to be used by the right (including libertarians). The incentives of bitcoin will mean that people that would be opposed to the idea will use it...

Just as those that are opposed to ideas of fiat often use it because they have to use it.

I think this is the disconnect. I have no problem believing many that are on the left buy bitcoin. I just haven't met any that seem to understand why it was created. Maybe you do understand that. I suspect you do. I suspect bitcoin will change you. I know it has affected the way I think and act in the world. How I spend and save. Bitcoin is Austrian Economics in practice. You may disagree. You may not care.

Bitcoin will win if people don't care about ideology. It will win because the incentive structure and game theory play out.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 23 Oct

I don't think you are dumb. I once thought the ideas of liberty were dumb. I wasn't dumb at the time I just had yet to learn what I know now. I'm still learning.

I should clarify though. I have met progressives that have bought bitcoin. But they also bought many shitcoins and they don't call themselves bitcoiners. I really don't care about their politics. I'm usually the one asking many questions about why they bought bitcoin or whatever. Its usually for very different reasons from my own.

Curious what this means.

liberal and conservative moral foundations

If we are talking about moral issues most libertarians have a mix as well.

54 sats \ 0 replies \ @marco OP 23 Oct

Thanks for elaborating! Really appreciate it.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 23 Oct

IMO People who are adopted on the left don't understand proof of work or private property. So I doubt they can understand Bitcoin. The most we can expect from people on the left towards Bitcoin, ehem: is like what some European characters recently invented trying to say that the first Bitcoiners should share with the Bitcoiners who came last.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @7e6e393a56 23 Oct

If a communist bitcoiner appears saying Comrade Satoshi, then I'll stop 😆

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 23 Oct

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 23 Oct

They are inconsistent, incompatible worldviews.

I've argued this pretty explicitly, e.g., for Bitcoin Magazine (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/in-defense-of-bitcoin-culture-) or in reviewing Jason Maier's book, A Progressive's Case for Bitcoin: "I always held that there was no progressive case for Bitcoin. Progressives want to steer and control; Bitcoin liberates and solidifies, making directed control impossible. Ergo: Progressives don’t like Bitcoin."

I've called them PINOs -- "Progressives In Name Only," because there's nothing about seriously favoring bitcoin that's consistent with "progressive" (in its current political meaning -- yes, yes, redefine the terms if you want).

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 23 Oct

Bitcoin a partisan topic

Bitcoin is property rights, leftism is antithetical to property rights

This is why left-coded Bitcoiners get scammed by shitcoins and scaling nonsense, because Bitcoin doesn't solve the socio side of socio-economics.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @ChrisS 23 Oct

“progressive, left leaning, and reformist political views.”

What kind of views do you mean by this? Can you give some example of the viewpoints?

64 sats \ 3 replies \ @marco OP 23 Oct

I'm glad there is someone asking questions. :)

Progressivism is indeed a broad category and I used it for that exact reason. I personally find myself quite aligned with the ideas of the so called social liberalism "that endorses social justice, social services, a mixed economy, and the expansion of civil and political rights, as opposed to classical liberalism which favors limited government and an overall more laissez-faire style of governance" (from the Wikipedia entry for "Social liberalism").

I could give you multiple reasons to be both an advocate of sound money and a supporter of social welfare. Here is one: I value universal healthcare, education, ... I like that everybody, no matter their income, has access to the same healthcare services. I live in a place where healthcare is excellent, and I do not feel robbed when paying my taxes. I do believe that a transition to a Bitcoin standard would benefit both individuals and society.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ChrisS 23 Oct

I'm glad you are answering.

My next questions are?

What healthcare services is everyone guaranteed and are there any that not everyone has access too and who decides this? How much is the appropriate amount to pay towards social welfare? Where does the money come from if this is not enough to provide the needed healthcare services and other services?

What happens to someone if they cant pay? What happens to someone if they refuse to pay?

Who is in charge of allocating the resources? What consequences do they face if the misuse the money?

Who decides what is/isn't social justice? What are political rights and who decides who gets them and who doesn't?

Some of these questions can be answered easily with a money that can be printed at ease but not so much with a sound money.

For what its worth, I agree with some form of social welfare. I think we should have strong families, and local communities, neighborhoods, churches, etc that support others in times of need. Its easy for a large govt to waste money on bureaucracy, theft, and other nonsense and not spend it on its citizens. I also don't like the idea of people being thrown in jail if they don't decide to contribute.

Also, I asked a question on your bio I would be curious to know the answer to if you have time to respond. I think its important to tell the story of people or were once into shitcoins but became only into bitcoin and why

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @marco OP 24 Oct

Those are questions that I would like a democratically elected council/assembly/government should gather talents to provide answers to. I'm quite sure the answers will not be perfect and not acceptable for many. However, if the alternative is returning to the law of nature, to the survival of the fittest/strongest/richest/... I will gladly accept this path and iterations toward providing better answers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Oct

Thanks for sharing this. Helpful to understand the meaning of the terms in your context.

Like most social media sites people gravitate to the base and subtlety is lost.

In my experience this is the rub between the right and your statement.

I do not feel robbed when paying my taxes

That's great for you that you don't feel that way. But others do. Its not that I oppose helping those that need it. Its that the state sucks at administrating it. And this money is taken, not given. On top of that. They piss most of it away. Give it to oppressive evil regimes around the world and war lords and weapons manufacturers.

Make it voluntary and I'm good with it.