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60 sats \ 18 replies \ @Undisciplined 6 Nov \ on: How to begin restoring normalcy with friends/relatives? culture
I do think it's too soon to initiate these conversations and have them be constructive, but I don't see why you should have to go out of your way to avoid them either.
What has generally worked well for me is keeping conversations very specific and avoiding terms that are politically loaded. It's hard to avoid people jumping back to their tribal talking points, though.
Also, speaking about things descriptively, rather than normatively, creates a more neutral ground where there's no insinuation that someone's a bad person for believing what they believe: i,e, "Trump won because voters were concerned about..." rather than "These insane ideas [insert insane leftist ideas here] are why Trump won."
I take your point as a strategic/instrumental way to achieve more mending
...but I really hate that kind of unclear, roundabout, pussyfooting kind of speaking. Clarity is a virtue, and this is trading accuracy for what feels good.
doubtful.
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This is about mending relationships, not proving who's right.
There just isn't much common ground when people interpret words differently and are voting on completely different issues. The pro-reproductive-rights vote doesn't care that Trump will take care of the immigration issue, just as the crypto bro doesn't particularly care about the EPA or Dept Ed .
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that's the same thing.
You can't mend relationships without admission of guilt and some sort of shared values/agreement on behavior
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No one is "wrong"
i don't agree, but that's okay.
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You're wrong. Wait, that means I'm wrong. Shit! That means you're right.
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mwuhahaha
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doublez down:
"The only person who can crawl out of Plato's cave is you...I don't know how to explain to you that the shadows aren't real -- they're just not real!"
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nah nah nah.
Plenty of that, from vaxx to wokeism, group identity etc.
Link to Stephens' article in NYT today again:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html
The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think.
i think i might settle for acknowledgement of lesson learned.
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Yeah...
trading accuracy for what feels good
What ways can we/i work towards mending without compromising integrity/accuracy/expediency?
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I don't have a good answer for that.
Just don't want to do it; seems compromising, coddling, pathetic.
These mental children need to grow up -- and have a good spank while at it -- but maybe it's better their elucidation come in cold showers like Orange Man than me trying to pussyfoot around their acute sensibilities
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I actually think I'm advocating for greater clarity, not less. Why something happened is a different topic from whether you like what happened.
If you really want to talk about why you liked something, go ahead and do so.
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I actually don't think there is a way to convey to liberals and ivory towers and media insiders etc the ways in which they have misunderstood the world and/or humanity -- other than "GO FUCKING SOUL-SEARCH! YOUR SHIT IS JUST NOT RIGHT"
Bret Stephens in the NYT today comes close.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html
I just don't know that I can display that kind of patience and calmness, in person or in print
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I didn't create the prompt. To me, the people who behaved as described revealed themselves to not be worth maintaining relationships with.
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Sometimes people are wrong and misinformed. I don't think that makes them unworthy of my love and attention. Specifically in the case of family.
That being said, I have gotten a lot from the responses on this post. Well worth my 600 sats to post it.
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It's not the being wrong and misinformed part that's the main problem. My problem is with people who seemed like friends until they allowed some political topic get between us.
To me, that's demonstrating that they were not ever true friends and I'm fine with moving on. If they want to reach out and repair the relationship, I'll be all ears.
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