How to begin restoring normalcy with friends/relatives? \ stacker news ~culture

How to begin restoring normalcy with friends/relatives?

2895 sats \ 37 comments \ @itsrealfake 10h culture

TL;DR - You may have noticed that it's been hyper-political since ~2016, and i want to use the opportunity today to begin normalizing conversations with close family who took the losing side of the bet. Is now the time? What strategies might work well? What pitfalls should I avoid?

So, here we are, the day after a rather remarkable election result. I've spent the last 8 years or so trying to avoid conversations about politics with close family and some friends. I've chosen to forgoe deeper, philosophical conversations about governance and economics in favor of "how about this weather" just for the sake of avoiding landmines and preserving calmness.

Today, I must imagine, that those same friends and family are reeling a bit from the results. I'd like to reach out and discuss the circumstance, and results with them. How are they feeling about the results? Do they have any reflections? Does this result impact their views/opinions about the last 8 years?

Perhaps it is too soon to discuss, and maybe I should let conversations encouraging placid and neutral topics continue for a while, but I know that I'm missing the depth of relationships with them that I want back. I miss digging into the deeper topics, and have learned to avoid doing so because of the frustration that erupts from (what I see as) distorted views of the world.

While I don't presume the ability to predict the future, I was able to predict this outcome. And I think the popular narrative that has unfolded at the ballots seems to support my thesis. So, now, I feel like I have a bit of evidence-to-the-contrary to share with these now-distant associates, and I want to begin the process of healing and reintegrating them to a normalized worldview (pretty assumptive of me to assert that i have the normal worldview, but fuck-it... i'm obviously more right about things).

More than rubbing their noses in it, I would like to return to the feeling of having them on my side. I want to use this as a learning opportunity, and gently support healing of some old wounds on myself (things have been said) and for them (they've been seriously misled).

Does this sentiment resonate with any stackers out there? Is it possible to regain the trust of these individuals and to help them back into the fold, and shepherd them from the mainstream idiocy? Am I gloating already?

What ideas do you have about how to navigate relationships with our friends/relatives who have held distinctly antithetical views about the nature of contemporary reality for the past 8 years?

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578 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebpoet 9h

I totally understand your sentiment and glad you wrote about this. I have this feeling myself but I'm identifying it as a reaction and questioning what is the desired outcome. Since I don't know exactly what I want the outcome to be exactly, I am hesitant to follow the impulse. Just saying "repair our relationships" feels too vague. Convincing them to see things my way feels too optimistic, too improbable, and even undesirable because I don't want them to think like me, because then there would be nothing to discuss.

I miss digging into the deeper topics, and have learned to avoid doing so

What you shared here is pointing to the real desire, just the return to connection, when discussing politics isn't a trap. I think that's gonna take time.

115 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 9h

What ideas do you have about how to navigate relationships with our friends/relatives who have held distinctly antithetical views about the nature of contemporary reality for the past 8 years?

Most of those will never come back, for accepting that you have been defending an abomination for your entire life is impossible and gets most people blocked. Many will go into offensive and remain forever revisionists, desperately seeking how to reinterpret things so to make them be right. Many will go into defensive and remain in silence, dealing with it by avoidance. And a very, very few will snap back into reality, recognize it's faults, and come back to you by themselves. But most of the times, none will.

That's all you can do. You can not force it, you can not work it out. You can only treat it in the exact same way as before, for this is not over.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 7h

Wow, an olive branch. Seriously you're the hero we all need.

I can tell you liberals are upset, yes, but mostly FRIGHTENED TO DEATH.

Trump says so many things, conservatives "interpret" them dismissively, like he's joking or just talking about his "feelings".

Liberals take them literally. People are genuinely scared Trump is dismantling democracy with help from billionaires and Putin.

They think he wants to create concentration camps, and capture and punish his political rivals ("enemies").

They think he will be able to do so because Congress and the Supreme Court are Republican-dominant.

Women's rights is a bit of a "call to vote" -- the real fear is total fascism with a Christian militia.

This is not just something I read online-- these are the very real fears of people I know, in real life.

I think the best way is to just ask how they're feeling, and listen. Like if they had lost a child.

Trump is the poorest winner in history. Don't take his lead.

26 sats \ 2 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 5h

So, i guess you're getting at something significant... indirectly.

They think

Yes. Those are things they think. And what i'm intuiting from your response is something about why they think that. I suppose it has a lot to do with the places they get their media.

Perhaps the best course of action (in my case) is to discuss differences in the quality/accuracy of our (me & fam/friends) information sources, as well as the relative benefits of our ability to predict outcomes given the sourced information.

Thanks.

Wow, an olive branch. Seriously you're the hero we all need.

I'm choosing to interpret this sincerely, and not sarcastically. Thanks again :) I really do want to integrate a lot of what's been happening, heal from it, and move these relationships forward. I'd like to have most of the people i'm thinking of in a citadel with me... but seriously, I'd rather they were capable and inspired and informed how to develop their own.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 2h

Yes I was trying to be sincere-- I forgot the Internet requires 👍🏻🙌👏🤜🤛 for clarity! No sarcasm here.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 2h

69 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 4h

some thoughts regarding this problem:

disconnecting temporarily and going into nature is a pretty good solution!
family is more important than politics, or country, or any corporate affiliation, however the truth is even more important than the family.
lead by example. no matter what, do not compromise on the righteous way of life and continue to double down on ur standards, always learning. there is such a thing as an absolute right and wrong.
seek out people who think alike, and make those connections stronger. invite ur friends & family who are still under mind control (the insane) to events with the sane people.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 4h

Its tempting to want to gloat. Don't if care about these people and want a relationship.

I'd like to reach out and discuss the circumstance, and results with them. How are they feeling about the results? Do they have any reflections? Does this result impact their views/opinions about the last 8 years?

Don't. This is the problem. What is there to discuss? Do they want to understand where you are coming from? Do you not understand them?

Perhaps it is too soon to discuss

100%. Only if they view you as a safe person to talk to about things.

I want to use this as a learning opportunity

Don't. I have tried this in the past. The only way people learn is through pain or if they are wanting to learn. You need to pick one goal and stick to that.

You said returning to normalcy. Not sure what that means but I assume they weren't aligned with your world view before 2016 and they aren't now. In the past most people just didn't really get into politics to the level they do now.

My advice is if you want a relationship treat them with kindness, love, and understanding. Don't expect it to be reciprocated at first. You do sound like gloating might be a struggle so I would avoid politics altogether with them. Honestly, it is stupid how central party politics has become. It is stupid that people have let it divide families. I have many friends and colleagues that do not see the world the way I do.

Arguing with them and trying to win debates is how a douche bag behaves but for some reason this has become acceptable behavior. I would highly recommend reading "The Righteous Mind". It helped me understand how people think about morals and how much of it is built into how their brains work.

Party politics weaponize these differences in our brains. You need to pick one of two options.

Gloat and mock
Be a friend

Its a sad world where people determine someone's worth by their stupid vote for a clown that wants to be a ruler. We have more in common with our neighbor that we disagree with than anyone running for office.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake OP 3h

Do they want to understand where you are coming from? Do you not understand them?

yeah... this is a great point.

You need to pick one goal and stick to that.

Likewise, another good one. Thanks for your thoughtful input.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 3h

Honestly I really believe it is far more important for us as individuals to learn to build relationships and strengthen our families and communities. It is tempting to write people off but if you understand Marxism that is a goal. Break those bonds.

Do we really think our ancestors all thought the same way? They didn't. There were brains that thought like your progressive friends and your conservative friends. My guess is that you are more aligned with libertarian thinking.

One key to get is that people have been programmed and abused mentally pretty much from birth. This goes for both sides but the progressives are clearly getting more of this from the education and entertainment systems.

That helps me show more grace than I really want to show. On top of that, as a follower of Jesus I am directed to love my enemies. I don't consider voters to be my enemies. More like misguided people that have been abused. I've spent many years trying to understand both the right and the left. I think I have a pretty decent understanding of where they are coming from. I have a lot of experience debating people on both sides. Its not productive in 99.9% of cases. At best you might convince someone that isn't involved.

One thing we should learn from the last decade is that people can evolve. Look at how many have moved away from the democrats and the left. If people would focus on being fair and truthful I think we could have even more success.

60 sats \ 15 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

I do think it's too soon to initiate these conversations and have them be constructive, but I don't see why you should have to go out of your way to avoid them either.

What has generally worked well for me is keeping conversations very specific and avoiding terms that are politically loaded. It's hard to avoid people jumping back to their tribal talking points, though.

Also, speaking about things descriptively, rather than normatively, creates a more neutral ground where there's no insinuation that someone's a bad person for believing what they believe: i,e, "Trump won because voters were concerned about..." rather than "These insane ideas [insert insane leftist ideas here] are why Trump won."

116 sats \ 14 replies \ @denlillaapan 7h

I take your point as a strategic/instrumental way to achieve more mending ...but I really hate that kind of unclear, roundabout, pussyfooting kind of speaking. Clarity is a virtue, and this is trading accuracy for what feels good.

doubtful.

16 sats \ 6 replies \ @joda 7h

This is about mending relationships, not proving who's right.

There just isn't much common ground when people interpret words differently and are voting on completely different issues. The pro-reproductive-rights vote doesn't care that Trump will take care of the immigration issue, just as the crypto bro doesn't particularly care about the EPA or Dept Ed .

4 sats \ 5 replies \ @denlillaapan 6h

that's the same thing.

You can't mend relationships without admission of guilt and some sort of shared values/agreement on behavior

2 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 6h

"admission of guilt?"

No one is "wrong" -- they just value different things.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 4h

nah nah nah.

Plenty of that, from vaxx to wokeism, group identity etc.

Link to Stephens' article in NYT today again: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

The Democratic Party at its best stands for fairness and freedom. But the politics of today’s left is heavy on social engineering according to group identity. It also, increasingly, stands for the forcible imposition of bizarre cultural norms on hundreds of millions of Americans who want to live and let live but don’t like being told how to speak or what to think.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 2h

Oh I can agree with that!

I just don't think people are "wrong" in some objective way. I think they're misguided and a strategic disaster for their cause.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 6h

No one is "wrong"

i don't agree, but that's okay.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 6h

i think i might settle for acknowledgement of lesson learned.

6 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake OP 7h

Yeah...

trading accuracy for what feels good

What ways can we/i work towards mending without compromising integrity/accuracy/expediency?

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 7h

I don't have a good answer for that.

Just don't want to do it; seems compromising, coddling, pathetic.

These mental children need to grow up -- and have a good spank while at it -- but maybe it's better their elucidation come in cold showers like Orange Man than me trying to pussyfoot around their acute sensibilities

2 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 7h

I actually think I'm advocating for greater clarity, not less. Why something happened is a different topic from whether you like what happened.

If you really want to talk about why you liked something, go ahead and do so.

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @denlillaapan 7h

I actually don't think there is a way to convey to liberals and ivory towers and media insiders etc the ways in which they have misunderstood the world and/or humanity -- other than "GO FUCKING SOUL-SEARCH! YOUR SHIT IS JUST NOT RIGHT"

Bret Stephens in the NYT today comes close. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/opinion/donald-trump-defeat-democrats.html

I just don't know that I can display that kind of patience and calmness, in person or in print

6 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 7h

I didn't create the prompt. To me, the people who behaved as described revealed themselves to not be worth maintaining relationships with.

107 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake OP 5h

Sometimes people are wrong and misinformed. I don't think that makes them unworthy of my love and attention. Specifically in the case of family.

That being said, I have gotten a lot from the responses on this post. Well worth my 600 sats to post it.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 5h

It's not the being wrong and misinformed part that's the main problem. My problem is with people who seemed like friends until they allowed some political topic get between us.

To me, that's demonstrating that they were not ever true friends and I'm fine with moving on. If they want to reach out and repair the relationship, I'll be all ears.

47 sats \ 2 replies \ @nym 8h

I don't talk about politics with family. Family is far more important than politics, and when they are gone you won't care about that one view on life they had, you will still miss them. The good news is, if they were a part of the universe when they were alive, they are still part of the universe after they have died, so they aren't truly gone.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @nym 8h

It's not a perfect solution, but if you're wondering how I manage to do that. I basically just told them what I wrote above a few years ago. I was frustrated, because I just wanted to visit and relax like when I was kid, but all the conversations were infused with politics then.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 7h

Yeah... we always talked about politics. It's just that it got rather more explosive in the last few years.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 8h

The best thing to do is remember how you felt four years ago. I'm guessing that for the first couple of days, you needed to either vent or grieve (or both), and engaging with the folks on the winning side wouldn't have helped. So give them a few days.

Beyond that, at risk of saying the obvious, treat them as human beings. The last 8+ years have felt like each side (however you define that word) tries to view the other as subhuman. That's an easy path, but it's not one that offers hope for actual friendships moving forward.

And also accept that some folks simply won't be in a position to talk for a while. "Time heals all wounds" may not always be true, but it's got some truth at its core.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @denlillaapan 7h

YEEEESSS. Absolutely. Thank you for your contribution.

"I want to begin the process of healing and reintegrating them to a normalized worldview (pretty assumptive of me to assert that i have the normal worldview, but fuck-it... i'm obviously more right about things)."

totally.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake OP 7h

i appreciate the vote of confidence :)

5 sats \ 2 replies \ @398ja 5h

I found that talking policies instead of candidates is far more effective. Admittedly, this is not always easy, but necessary in the current political climate.

Concretely, "what policies are better (subjectively or objectively)" is a more productive conversation than "which candidate is better."

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake OP 3h

Concretely, "what policies are better (subjectively or objectively)" is a more productive conversation than "which candidate is better."

I think i'm more interested to know if they've learned a lesson... but as a sibling in the thread mentioned... maybe that's just gloating.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @398ja 3h

I'm my personal experience, no, they haven't learned any lesson.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @7e6e393a56 5h

This is the reality not only in the United States, but in several countries. People distancing themselves because of politics! I understand the ideological dispute, with each aspect seeking its space, but a politician's fan boy is already too much. Every politician must be held accountable, not revered. To this day I still can't understand how we got to this. I always withheld my opinion in these heated discussions so as not to lose a friendship. This in my country is dormant at the moment, but I don't know for how long. The wisest thing in this situation is to be a good listener

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Msd0457890 7h

I understand you perfectly, my friend.Having the same point of view or opinion is often impossible.I personally have always tried to maintain effective communication with all my family members, always with a lot of tolerance and respect for their opinions.