I'm watching the announcement live on CNBC. I'll post the link to the video and other links as they are released.
The CEO, Andrew Hohns, is very pro bitcoin. He used an example of a typical commercial real estate mortgage being refinanced into a loan that is partially collateralized by bitcoin. The lender uses it to counteract the loss of value due to the depreciating fiat over the term of the loan. The lender basically lends fiat to accumulate bitcoin. It can be looked at as another speculative attack on the dollar.
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156 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
Here's the link:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2024/11/22/why-newmarket-capital-ceo-andrew-hohns-is-fusing-loans-with-bitcoin.html
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63 sats \ 8 replies \ @BlokchainB 22 Nov
Yeah Marty bent been talking about this on his podcasts the last month or so. It appears it’s becoming more into mainstream consciousness.
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0 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
I think so. It makes sense. People, myself included, loved to borrow at long terms to take advantage of fiat value deterioration. During covid the US govt was offering 3 1/2 percent fixed 30 year loans. Perfect way to buy some bitcoin. Imagine the buying power of those dollars after 30 years? Lenders are wizing up.
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265 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Nov
What about if it was a moral thing to do it, knowing that with your OWN signature in the lending contract YOU were the one creating new more fiat money? Banks do not create those money until you sign the papers. And you are literally paying a loan for money that you created in the first place.
You are literally signing your own debt slavery.
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42 sats \ 5 replies \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
I don't disagree from a moral standpoint now that bitcoin exists. Pre 2009 people had to survive under the system forced upon them. We disagree also on speculative fiat attacks. You may not think it's right, but there's something satisfying about further degrading fiat and hastening its death while growing your bitcoin stack at the same time.
FYI- I'm not talking about Saylor. I distrust him for many reasons.
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381 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Nov
People must understand that we will make Bitcoin stronger by using it every day as money and less fiat.
NOT by inflating the fiat money supply to buy more BTC.
By borrowing more fiat to buy more BTC you are just making BTC price higher. That means nothing in adoption terms.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
I understand your point, but I think it's more complicated than that. Value is being transferred from the fiat system to the bitcoin system. If these bitcoin capitalists just sit on their bitcoin, I agree, adoption is not being aided. However, I look at guys like Peter McCormack. Whatever you think of him, he is using his wealth to spread bitcoin in his town. He bought a football team, pays the players in bitcoin, bought a bitcoin only bar.
I remember hearing Obi Nwosu on a podcast, saying wealthy bitcoiners need to use their bitcoin to invest in bitcoin businesses and spend bitcoin.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @jk_14 22 Nov
what if you:
- take Bitcoin-backed loan
- change that money from loan for BTC for every daily payment that you can pay with Bitcoin
using BTC every day as money is satisfied, isn't it?
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 22 Nov
No, you still don't get it: you create those new money with your own fucking signature.
You inflate the fiat money supply, you do not help in any way Bitcoin.
why people are nowadays so fucking fiat maxis and have in their mind only fiat gains?
WNGMI like that.
Which part of this is not clear for you?
maybe I am too visionary and this world is so fucked up that can't get away... people will remain over and over in the same deep shit
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mo 23 Nov
This info is not correct. Those signing the contract are the one creating the money...
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43 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 25 Nov
I don't see this as a speculative attack I just see this as a tax arb strategy, this type of product only exists because of cap gains on Bitcoin, no cap gains then what's the real need to borrow against your Bitcoin? Interest rates on these products aren't exactly miles cheaper than financing traditionally so where would the USP come from, unless they like offering you ultra low interest rates on Bitcoin loans
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43 sats \ 4 replies \ @Jon_Hodl 22 Nov
Pretty fascinating. I am going to have to watch the video again to fully understand it but as far as I can tell, it's just a normal loan but the lender just buys bitcoin with the profits and holds for a minimum of 4 years.
Is that what other people are understanding?
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
Yes. It seems to me that the lender is simply protected from dollar debasement by adding bitcoin to the collateral in addition to the real estate itself.
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53 sats \ 2 replies \ @Jon_Hodl 22 Nov
Seems like a great first step for the real estate industry to gain exposure to bitcoin.
How long do you think it will take real estate investors come to the realization that just buying and hodling the bitcoin is a better investment than taking on all the risks involved with real estate?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 22 Nov
I am actually involved in real estate management. I can't wait! Management is a nightmare to try to grind out 8% fiat profit, barring hurricanes or other unexpected expenses.
I'm watching Matt & Marty talking about the video now on TFTC.
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53 sats \ 0 replies \ @Jon_Hodl 22 Nov
Yes. This seems like a perfect tool for the industry to wean itself off of cheap credit and onto sound money.
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252 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 22 Nov
Using Bitcoin as collateral for borrowing more fiat is a total bullshit, creating more shit then we need. This way we will never get rid of fiat.
THIS WORLD IS REALLY MAD AND STUPID.
People will never learn from the past: FTX, Nexo, Crypto, BlockFi etc...
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner 10 Dec
I realize I am a little late to this party here but I am going to chime in anyway as this is also my area of operations....
I understand and agree with the creating of FIAT inflation when signing for the loan not necassarily being a net positive for Bitcoin...however, I think the other side of this trade is a net positive for Bitcoin - here me out....
I am looking at this from the lense of a Bitcoiner (I think) and as such here is how I play this out in my head.... these numbers are estimates but close enough....
At the end of the 10 year term - my building might be worth $27Million at a 5% compound annual growth rate (cagr).... the Bitcoin....based on 29% cagr would be valued around $20Million - now in my little head I don't think it is likely that real estate will continue seeing 5.5% cagr's for the next 10 years - and the value of the Bitcoin will likely equal if not exceed the value of the building as the real estate market realizes its store of value is extremely riskier and more expensive to own than Bitcoin....
In this scenario (again in my head) the value of the building becomes its Bitcoin value in 10years....In this scenarion the owner still likely loses a significant portion of their FIAT (imagine and inflated) wealth to either higher inflation or falling values due to recession and shrinking of the economy but maintains a portion of their wealth in Bitcoin terms (I say a portion because if you watched the UnChained interview Marty Bent did with Andrew Hohns he mentioned that they (the lender) and the borrower share in the appreciated value of the Bitcoin after the end of the 10 year term with 80/20 split....
Yea- that's the part that blew my mind too (due to my 50/50 split with my resident paying in bitcoin?) if you remember that? I thought it was awesome that someone else is catching on to that plan....I haven't seen the agreement but I imagine it is a variable split % based on the length of the borrow holding the loan? but I digress....
Back to the original scenario....
It seems to me that this type of product in the lending market is going to accelerate the "defiatization" of real estate and grow the Bitcoin network - I called this the popping of the real estate balloon - moment. I think this loan product becomes the only way FIAT maxis loan there FIAT in the near term and this helps give the world a more slow, orderly switch to Bitcoin....
These are just my thoughts - and I probably didn't do them justice but am curious for others thoughts
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