Currently every lightning invoice contains the destination node public key. Since this key cannot be changed, if one invoice is linked to you, all the consecutive invoices can also be deduced to be generated by you and assumed that the payment is sent to you.
Is there any future development that will solve this problem? I know about blinded paths, but they seem not to work with the current wallets, they make invoices very long (qr codes may become unscanable on some screens), and they increase costs.
Nobody can stop you to spin up a new node anytime you want.
I've explained some scenarios here: https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/operating-with-ln-as-a-merchant
Using decoy nodes is a simple way until we will have new tools, like k00b mentioned PTLC. SCID mentioned by Justin is also a good option.
The decoy nodes is an interesting idea. I wonder if it could be implemented as ephemeral lite nodes that proxy (mitm) the invoices with their own pubkey, speak a subset of the protocol for discovery, but otherwise act like full LN nodes to the external observer.
You have an example right on SN pinned posts #803740
I did look at this, and looks interesting, but that's not exactly what I meant. i was turned off by the discord thing, so didn't investigate further.
Exploring this idea more, I think its more about 'fake' nodes, eg: mitm nodes that front the traffic, analogous to domain fronting on CDNs. Rizful looks like temporary nodes, and I feel there is a bigger risk of losing funds will ephemeral full nodes, vs ephemeral fronting nodes that mitm the invoices.
Primarily, I don't want to have to create channels for the decoys. Ideally this would route to the 'real' destination via the decoy. I don't even know if this is possible!
Without channels how do you want to route private traffic? Think about private traffic as "noise" that cannot be distinguished from other traffic or routes.
If you do not want to use disposable or decoy nodes, then as @supertestnet said, use https://lnproxy.org/
Ah, we would need a private channel to route back from the decoy to the real node, and we would need the decoy with a valid public (or possibly private with hints) channel to handle the outer invoice. Ill think about this some more.
Maybe im looking for lnproxy.org like service I can spin up myself. No point using a 3rd party if I am trying to hide my true node pubkey.
you can spin up lnproxy for yourself, it's free and open source software and there are two implementations:
Go implementation: https://github.com/lnproxy/lnproxy-relay
Dotnet implementation: https://github.com/nodlAndHodl/lnproxy
Thanks, ill take a look this weekend.
I am skeptical that there will ever be total privacy, as long as everything is permanently recorded in a ledger of any type. Sooner, or later, all of the hashes and encryption can be broken. It just takes some time and Moore’s law put into effect.
thankfully, on lightning, payments are not permanently recorded on any ledger of any type
That makes it a target of the “law enforcement” arm of the government. They have to have their noses in everybody’s sh*t.
they may fire a thousand arrows from their highest tower but they will never take down all lightning nodes
the genie has left the bottle
Yeah, but they will sure try very hard. They are ruthless and do not give a sh*t.
Is simple:
https://video.nostr.build/fb30452e7e6e9d307e9ed656284e5e089581018e2c7518503bc5e969069788ab.mp4
For more you keep using fiat, more power you give them.
Any escape from fiat is the road to freedom.
Let them try. The thing is that not the gov is the biggest threat. Gov authority over your BTC can easily be rebutted. We have biggest problems than meaningless govs.
Yes, bullets are cheap! For both parties. Just don’t let them get a look at the back of your head, might not be healthy. It looks like a lot of governments are collapsing at the moment. I fervently hope they all do and bring THEM down, too.
They can shoot me, but will never have my sats. Same for you: if you are afraid of gov, why are you still using bitcoin? Nobody is forcing you to use bitcoin. Just go back to fiat and be an obedient shitizen. More sats for me.
Good way to look at it. But they will get your gold dental work.
Privacy will exist only when you separate your public stuff from private stuff. You cannot have privacy in a public place (internet). You cannot have privacy when you use your private identity in a public place. People must learn what is private and what is public and how to use them. https://livingintheprivate.blogspot.com/
https://postimg.cc/vcnS336P
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to separate yourself from your body and be in the public sphere. They will track your body. Just don’t carry a stupidphone.
If you're using LND you can just use scid aliases which spoofs that identifier
Why would it work? I just tried, and still see my node Pub Key when decoding an invoice at https://lightningdecoder.com
it's pretty easy to use "invoice wrapping" to hide your pubkey
https://lnproxy.org/ does this for free in a way that (1) any wallet can integrate (2) anyone can do it manually (by copy/pasting) even if your wallet doesn't support it
Some wallets support invoice wrapping natively, including Mutiny Wallet
You can also inject a "fake" pubkey into your lightning invoices -- Valet Wallet does this automatically, and there is also the trans lnd software that makes LND do this with every payment
SN does this for p2p zaps. Also to your SN lightning address (or any "receive" type action) when enabled in your settings.
Bolt12 will solve it
PTLCs but they're a long way off. Blinded paths are the best you're going to get for awhile afaik.
Don't PTLCs still require the destination public key to be in the invoice?
I'm not sure actually. If it's source routed still and the path isn't blinded, I guess you would need the receiver's public key to be in there.
There is literally a thread just above this one. #803740
This is not anymore true with bolt12, you should use it
I don’t know that much about LN, but isn’t ‘bolt 12 offer’ provide more privacy than ln invoice?