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When a tx is really "confirmed"?
After 6 confirmations
And did I said otherwise?
I said literally: after 6 confirmations RBF is totally useless. #814121
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This explanation is fine to me, but @DarthCoin didn't explain it this way. He just said "you can use RBF on confirmed transactions" which is wrong if you don't include the assumptions. He even linked the BIP which literally mentions it only works on unconfirmed tx instead of explaining himself better.
We got 1 confirmation
"unconfirmed" means BEFORE being included in 6 blocks
"confirmed" means included in 6 blocks
I see what we're disagreeing on now:
"unconfirmed" means it's not included in any block at all
"confirmed" means it was included in 6 blocks
Anything in between 1 and 6 blocks is neither confirmed nor unconfirmed.
If a tx has one confirmation, I would say it has one confirmation but it's not confirmed yet.
I think we wrongful use this term "confirmation".
A tx really is never "confirmed", it is just included in 1 block or 1000 blocks.
We only agree that after 6 blocks all wallet apps will not let the user to do a RBF anymore, therefore, we consider it "confirmed".
I think we wrongful use this term "confirmation".
I can agree with that, let's keep it at that.
I see what you're saying now and it makes sense but the way you're saying it is extremely confusing, especially for noobs.
Is the truth. Truth sometimes can confuse many people.
True. I think we're at the point of the discussion where we only reply to each other with memes. I'll start:
Yeah, the RBF'ed tx got 1 confirmation after it was mined but both were sitting in the mempool prior to that. Nothing special about a tx having one confirmation. This is the picture before your picture:
I do not understand why did you moved the discussion from OP to Saloon.
OP asked: Why isn't one confirmation enough for a bitcoin transaction?
So my answer is: because only after 6 blocks a tx can be considered "confirmed". Until then you can use RBF.
So my answer is: because only after 6 blocks a tx can be considered "confirmed". Until then you can use RBF.
So this is what you teach noobs? So if a noob does RBF on a tx with 5 confirmations and it didn't work, what are you going to say to them why it didn't work?
No, I never tell them to do double spends.
But they are free to try it.
Yes, but this has nothing to do with RBF.
Yes, RBF can only replace unconfirmed transactions. If it has only one confirmation, using RBF will not guarantee a double-spend, you would have to also hope for an orphaned block completely unrelated to RBF in which case it's unconfirmed again so RBF can work again.