reply on: Stacker Saloon \ stacker news

pull down to refresh

0 sats \ 16 replies \ @ek 11h \ parent \ on: Stacker Saloon

With only one confirmation there is some chance that the block with the confirmation will get orphaned

Yes, but this has nothing to do with RBF.

In this case, your transaction will become unconfirmed again. It can re-enter the mempool. And RBF can come into play again.

Yes, RBF can only replace unconfirmed transactions. If it has only one confirmation, using RBF will not guarantee a double-spend, you would have to also hope for an orphaned block completely unrelated to RBF in which case it's unconfirmed again so RBF can work again.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 11h

When a tx is really "confirmed"?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 11h

After 6 confirmations

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 11h

And did I said otherwise? I said literally: after 6 confirmations RBF is totally useless. #814121

0 sats \ 12 replies \ @Scroogey 11h

deleted by author

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @ek 11h

This explanation is fine to me, but @DarthCoin didn't explain it this way. He just said "you can use RBF on confirmed transactions" which is wrong if you don't include the assumptions. He even linked the BIP which literally mentions it only works on unconfirmed tx instead of explaining himself better.

0 sats \ 10 replies \ @DarthCoin 11h

We got 1 confirmation

"unconfirmed" means BEFORE being included in 6 blocks "confirmed" means included in 6 blocks

33 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 11h

I see what we're disagreeing on now:

"unconfirmed" means it's not included in any block at all "confirmed" means it was included in 6 blocks

Anything in between 1 and 6 blocks is neither confirmed nor unconfirmed.

If a tx has one confirmation, I would say it has one confirmation but it's not confirmed yet.

211 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 10h

I think we wrongful use this term "confirmation". A tx really is never "confirmed", it is just included in 1 block or 1000 blocks. We only agree that after 6 blocks all wallet apps will not let the user to do a RBF anymore, therefore, we consider it "confirmed".

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 10h

I think we wrongful use this term "confirmation".

I can agree with that, let's keep it at that.

I see what you're saying now and it makes sense but the way you're saying it is extremely confusing, especially for noobs.

33 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 10h

Is the truth. Truth sometimes can confuse many people.

133 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 10h

True. I think we're at the point of the discussion where we only reply to each other with memes. I'll start:

view replies

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 11h

Yeah, the RBF'ed tx got 1 confirmation after it was mined but both were sitting in the mempool prior to that. Nothing special about a tx having one confirmation. This is the picture before your picture:

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 11h

I do not understand why did you moved the discussion from OP to Saloon. OP asked: Why isn't one confirmation enough for a bitcoin transaction? So my answer is: because only after 6 blocks a tx can be considered "confirmed". Until then you can use RBF.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 10h

So my answer is: because only after 6 blocks a tx can be considered "confirmed". Until then you can use RBF.

So this is what you teach noobs? So if a noob does RBF on a tx with 5 confirmations and it didn't work, what are you going to say to them why it didn't work?

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10h

No, I never tell them to do double spends. But they are free to try it.