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I believe toxic maximalism has been discussed before a number of times.
It's not so much about maximalism (maximalism is good! :) ), as it is about toxicity.
Bitcoiners pride themselves on having a low time preference. But when your purchasing power experiences an 85% drawdown, it can and does hurt, especially if you're a first-cycler. Toxicity can be a way to abreact that; it can bring an immediate relief and give you instant gratification while the 'cucked, retarded, fiat-brained market' underappreciates your sound money. I'm guilty of it myself.
Someone has also mentioned frustration when unsuccessfully trying to orange pill friends. I think that frustration is also a manifestation of a high time preference and impatience. If Bitcoin is good, it will be adopted in its own time. You don't want Bitcoin's success to rely on toxic maxis insulting and ridiculing nocoiners into stacking.
If you feel like being toxic, maybe there are better ways to deal with the emotions.
That said, a bit of meme posting in the right corners of the internet can probably be healthy. I think it's more about what you feel inside when you do it than the content itself.
The vast majority of toxicity from Bitcoin maxis is a direct response to the worst anti-bitcoin, nocoiner, fiat maxi types. People who constantly repeat the weakest arguments and FUD against bitcoin. I have never witnessed first hand a toxic response to a curious open minded person asking honest questions.
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true, when you have seen buttcoiners and MSM-consuming normies saying 'why doesn't the government ban this ponzi' for years, you get pissed lol
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Not sure I agree with this, maxis toxicity is the worst anti-crypto, alternative anti-cash type avoiding arguments and avoiding facts with "shitcoiner".
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Can you give an example?
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HFSP shitcoiner.
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I know a person who is a relative of my family. He owns 20 whole Bitcoins and is too much arrogant. I tried asking him a lot of times how to start, but he gets annoyed and angry just by asking simple questions. If anyone asks anything regarding Bitcoin, he just shamelessly says, "You don’t even deserve to own it." He never taught us anyone anything. That’s why I started searching online and found this site. I made a promise to myself that from 2025, I will try to own as many Satoshis as I can. I don’t know what a toxic Bitcoin maximalist is—I need to look it up. And by orange pilling, do you mean introducing people to Bitcoin? Like in The Matrix? Or something else? But yeah, rudeness in general is not a very good thing; people tend to back off. Sweetness and Kindness is a special gift.
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You don’t even deserve to own it." He never taught us anyone anything.
Maybe he sees you as a statist normie democracy cuck, if that's the case then he is right. Bitcoin is not for everyone.
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see that's not an example of 'toxic maximalism'. what you demonstrated that's the example of being an asshole. there is a huge difference
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No, he's right. When you are for long time in bitcoinlandia and all those years you tried to explain bitcoin to all people around you but they simply ignore and laugh at you, you became more and more toxic... until you reach that level when you just say "I told you so"...
Why for me took just 5 min to realize that Bitcoin is the salvation and for other took 15 fucking years to just start asking questions about Bitcoin? 15 years not 15 days ! Even if you dedicate just 1h / month and you still learn something about Bitcoin. But nooo, 15 years ignoring it.
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Most people still ignore it. But I believe that everyone will get it eventually... It's still around 1995-1996
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Ahahah
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What kind of language is that? Are you from Twitter or Reddit? For your information, he sold his Bitcoins for currency time to time when needed. And Bitcoin is for everyone.
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he sold his Bitcoins for currency
LOL so is a fiat maxi in the end, not a bitcoin maxi. A bitcoin maxi will never sell for fiat his BTC https://darth-coin.github.io/general/21-rules-bitcoin-maxi-en.html
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Yes, right. To be honest, after reading your guides, I got the point of view that we should not sell our Satoshis. I like the thought. If it worked, governments would be on their knees. Bitcoin works as a power ducker from these governments. I never thought of that before. I thought activists and journalists would help fight all this, but Nakamoto already gave us this before. We're just recognizing it now. Do you live completely in bitcoins?
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Yes, from 2018. No more fiat. You don't have to sell your sats to be able to live... Just find your own way to pay directly in sats the merchants around you. We need to achieve that bitcoin circular economy: #576140 And we will never achieve it if will sell back for fiat your sats.
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Just amazing. Never thought this type of existence would be possible too.
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When you will finish to read all my guides, you will be like...
A whole new world will open to you.
Why would i use shitcoiner social media
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This is not the kind of behaviour anyone should have for relatives, regardless of having bitcoin too
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He's like this to everyone not just me. He doesn't want to talk about it simple rule 😂.
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You’ve got it right about the orange pill.
I expect that you’ll find stackers to be more helpful than your relative.
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Thank you. I saw it yesterday. People are too willing to help here. I am blessed to find Stacker News.
Regarding my relative, I think anyone who gets super wealthy would behave like this, but teaching someone doesn't even cost him anything. I think he wants to own all Bitcoins and doesn't want to leave anything for us 😂.
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Well, Darth has been stacking for a long time, and must have a substantial stack, but he's still very generous with his time and knowledge.
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I see he wrote in his guides about his general mission to help humanity. He will be remembered for his contributions. Just reading by his guides, I have changed a lot of my views. The first is not to sell Bitcoins for currency; instead, try to make an economy where we all exchange Bitcoins as payment. I like this idea very much.
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is his name uncle Darthcoin lol?
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No. You didn't read it. It's that my relative does have a lot of Bitcoins but is not willing to teach anyone about it.
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outside of bitcoin, does he have a difficult personality?
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The drawdowns probably don't hurt him, so it must be something else. Still, it sounds like a sign of a high time preference. For example, he could explore where where his attitude comes from, perhaps through therapy. But it's easier to be toxic.
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I think people over-complicate this. Toxic maxis are basically the same as toxic-anybodies: they enjoy being dicks, and so they are dicks. And then, just like all dicks, they find a way to justify their behavior so it seems to be the expression of some deeply-held values.
Here's an experiment: if you run into a "toxic maxi" that you know IRL, ask yourself if they're toxic in other aspects of their lives, too. I expect you'll encounter zero examples of good, thoughtful dudes who are simply so inflamed by the principles of btc that they turn into raving douches in this arena only. Even online you can see the evidence for this wider toxicity everywhere.
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100% this.
Related: I'm a big fan of the concept of the geek social fallacies, and bitcoin is no more immune than any small group or subculture. We tolerate toxic behavior because they're "one of us," but the long-term impact is that that same bad behavior hurts the entire community.
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I agree that toxic maxis are the same as toxic-anybodies.
But I also think Bitcoin attracts toxic people (even if they're only a small percentage of bitcoiners), because it takes a lot of studying to grok and certain traits to go all in and hold it through the ups and downs. For example, nerds with poor social skills, or people addicted to strong emotions / thrills may be overrepresented in the Bitcoin community.
That's also why you see more toxicity on online forums than IRL. The average person doesn't use those.
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Less ego, more education without insulting others.
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i think sometimes it's someone wanting to troll a bit sometimes it's autistic genius that got in early and have a mad stack and don't like the mindset of newer people (ngu, efts etc) and i think sometimes it's just after a while people get so sick of seeing the same bullshit and fake news everywhere that they become callous and, as a side effect, a bit toxic
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I find sharing few sats with friends and family a great way to help initiate themself to Bitcoin, as stupid this might sound but a few 1000 Sats gift here and there is like planting seeds for the new couple years. instead of spreading memes to them, 2 years ago I decided to share some Sats with them instead, I never thought these people would ever change their mind but to my surprise today they are stacking Sats for their future, so It worked for me in a low time preference way since told them to keep it for more than 3 years and teach them more about it on a whatsapp group.
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There are a bunch of toxic maximalist around here as well. You're right that they need to find better ways to deal with their emotions (ego). Insulting anyone isn't gonna do anything good for Bitcoin, kindness is better and always works.
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Toxic people aren't exclusive to Bitcoin they are found everywhere. These people deliberately try to insult others and run their own agenda. There are definitely better ways and one of them is putting forward the shortcomings of someone/something without being disrespectful.
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If Bitcoin is good, it will be adopted in its own time.
We also see this in the MoE and SoV debates which are pretty high time pref in my opinion.
I honestly think one of the biggest reasons for high time preference in bitcoin is a simple question of age. I'm a gen X guy but bitcoin is full of much younger men. With age you gain experience and often its my observation that a lot of the behaviour I see is likely immaturity and bravodo. I suspect this will shift as the median age of bitcoiners grows.
Finally good tech with long term staying power and incentives take a while to become widely accepted. The Internet is a great example. There are others. Eventually all tech becomes utility and ceases to be considered tech but rather just a part of life. Bitcoin will one day reach this level.
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Love the term "first-cycler"! Will steal
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I get the toxicity, but from my view - people need to take a chill pill and do more productive things than shit-posting and being agro to normies/no coiners. You all have been proven right over the past decade, I say avoid the low-road leader behavior
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Here you have the explanatory meme
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You don't want Bitcoin's success to rely on toxic maxis insulting and ridiculing nocoiners into stacking.
💯. I say let's ignore the toxic maxis. They are toxic in their personal life as well.
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Says the maxi shitcoiner...
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One of the highest time preference thing you can do is argue with shitcoiners on the internet.
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Abreact. I was not aware of the existence of this word. Thank you for that. And for abreacting about toxic maximalism.
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There is no benefit to be found in toxicity, it only causes harm.
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There are tradeoffs. One is warding off scammers that waste people's time. But all in all I think toxic behavior is more like the white blood cell. Focused on sickness it can be good but too much will bring death.
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This!
I know so many newbies that fall for shitcoiners temptations of quick easy money.
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toxicity is the natural defense against all kind of shitcoineries.
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I don't feel threatened by them. Do you?
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the best defense is the attack
being complacent with shitcoiners, it means you still don't understand the disease they bring around. They are like a plague.
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