I refer to sections 6 and 7 of this document: https://github.com/imperviousai/imp-browser/blob/master/Impervious%20Browser%20Terms%20of%20Service.pdf

Extract (emphasis mine):

  1. USER GENERATED CONTRIBUTIONS

The Site may invite you to chat, message, conduct audio and/or video calls, share and or collaborative documents, save/or transfer files, contribute to, or participate in blogs, message boards, online forums, and other functionality, and may provide you with the opportunity to create, submit, post, display, transmit, perform, publish, distribute, or broadcast content and materials to us or on the Site, including but not limited to text, writings, video, audio, photographs, graphics, comments, suggestions, or personal information or other material (collectively, "Contributions"). Contributions may be viewable by other users of the Site and through third-party websites. As such, any Contributions you transmit may be treated as non-confidential and non-proprietary. When you create or make available any Contributions, you thereby represent and warrant that:

  • The creation, distribution, transmission, public display, or performance, and the accessing, downloading, or copying of your Contributions do not and will not infringe the proprietary rights, including but not limited to the copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, or moral rights of any third party.
  • You are the creator and owner of or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents, releases, and permissions to use and to authorize us, the Site, and other users of the Site to use your Contributions in any manner contemplated by the Site and these Terms of Use.
  • You have the written consent, release, and/or permission of each and every identifiable individual person in your Contributions to use the name or likeness of each and every such identifiable individual person to enable inclusion and use of your Contributions in any manner contemplated by the Site and theseTerms of Use.

.....

  1. CONTRIBUTION LICENSE

By posting your Contributions to any part of the Site or making Contributions accessible to the Site by linking your account from the Site to any of your social networking accounts, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to us an unrestricted, unlimited, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free, fully-paid, worldwide right, and license to host, use, copy, reproduce, disclose, sell, resell, publish, broadcast, retitle, archive, store, cache, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, transmit, excerpt(in whole or in part), and distribute such Contributions (including, without limitation, your image and voice) for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, and to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such Contributions, and grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. The use and distribution may occur in any media formats and through any media channels.

This license will apply to any form, media, or technology now known or here after developed, and includes our use of your name, company name, andas applicable, and any of the trademarks, service marks, trade names, logos, and personal and commercial images you provide. You waive all moral rights in your Contributions, and you warrant that moral rights have not otherwise been asserted in your Contributions.

We do not assert any ownership over your Contributions. You retain full ownership of all of your Contributions and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your Contributions. We are not liable for any statements or representations in your Contributions provided by you in any area on the Site. You are solely responsible for your Contributions to the Site and you expressly agree to exonerate us from any and all responsibility and to refrain from any legal action against us regarding your Contributions.

We have the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, (1) to edit, redact, or other wise change any Contributions; (2) to re-categorize any Contributions to place them in more appropriate locations on the Site; and (3) to pre-screen or delete anyContributions at any time and for any reason, without notice. We have no obligation to monitor your Contributions.

....

I'll stop there. The word "Site" refers to the Browser itself (and other things, see first paragraph of section 1).

I'm no lawyer but this document appears to be saying that Impervious can take YOUR data and do what they want with it!!

Now - it could be the case that other browsers have the same terms. I haven't checked. Would appreciate some rational feedback on it...

related

Chase here, I'm an attorney and the CEO. If you don't like our boilerplate language, you can clone the code and run it yourself.

It's FOSS, P2P and E2EE. We can't control, see or manipulate data shared via the Impervious Browser. We claim zero ownership or interest in your data. Anything to the contrary is contrived.

Happy to have someone tweak the terms to clarify, but this is literally nothing. Love you all.

Peace

+1000 thanks for coming here and clarifying.

So we can just build it ourselves without the T&Cs? That's really great and a nice incentive for people to do exactly that (or maybe we'll end up with a situation like VS Codium with a "T&C free" build).

FYI I did try to build it and fell into some issues, probably really stupid ones but just so you're aware: https://stacker.news/items/83510

If I could adjust my title now, I would :-)

Even if the code is harmless now, the language used in the T&C is concerning since it essentially gives you free reign to introduce invasive mandatory telemetry at any point in the future.

Sure, the code is free, anyone can fork it but I find it hard to believe someone else will maintain a fork of a fork of a web browser.

Also, the p2p functionality can be restricted in "forked" builds that do not comply with new mandated telemetry by making protocol changes that impede interop.

Thanks for the clarification.

"Boilerplate" or not, could you expand on why you added the clauses into the license that provide your company with the right to monetize content provided by users?

To me, and I suspect many others, it's the antithesis of what I understood you were trying to do with impervious, and as the licensing verbiage stands, appears to align with the type of behaviour we've seen and experienced from large listed tech companies that monetize their users.. which is what we're all totally OVER.

If it's just a case of throwing in boilerplate (time and cost) with light review, then it's an easy fix to revise right?

Thanks

@ln123, thank you for extracting/highlighting these pieces from the T&Cs + sharing your insights.

I'm doing this because I want Impervious to succeed - and to me, these terms do not come across as "success"

These Terms of Use constitute a legally binding agreement made between you, whether personally or on behalf of an entity (“you”) and Impervious Technologies Inc. ("Company," “we," “us," or “our”), concerning your access to and use of the https://impervious.ai website, use of the Impervious Browser, as well as any other media form, media channel, mobile website or mobile application related, linked, or otherwise connected thereto (collectively, the “Site”).

So use the browser also constitutes use of the "Site".

I am a lawyer but I do not practice contract law and please do not take anything I say as legal advice. The language does seem concerning. With regard to what other browsers do, I can't answer that. What I can say, though, is that I am familiar with the social media site "Minds", where the user retains full rights to all content. In the case of a browser, the exposure to the entire web, rather than the closed confines of a site, may make ownership issues more problematic. For me, I would probably choose impervious as a Brave substitute, with the lightning network as a huge benefit, and avoid the other applications.

It could be a fuss about nothing, and geared towards protection of Impervious - given they are US based.

I would have preferred to see language geared towards protection of end users and their content though.. More "FOSS" than "corporate".

It's a stark contrast to Brave: https://brave.com/privacy/browser/

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @l0k1 20 Oct

I'm sticking with brave, Impervious is sniffy af.

If they aren't being up front about their income stream: You are the income stream. Via sales to the NSA and CIA.

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out.

123 sats \ 2 replies \ @l0k1 20 Oct

My fellow plebs. Don't stop pointing this stuff out everywhere. Make them amend this because it stinks like week old fish sat in the sun on the beach in high summer.

101 sats \ 1 replies \ @k00b 20 Oct

Do you live on the coast somewhere? Lots of fish metaphors 😊

103 sats \ 0 replies \ @l0k1 21 Oct

I was born in dry plains inland of mountains. I mostly have lived on mountains over 500m altitude. Fish are a rich source of metaphors because they are promiscuous within connected pools of water and thus resemble social networks in this way.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 19 Oct

I hope this is an oversight rather than intentional.

In all probability it's an over-zealous third-party lawyer who has drafted something which is divorced from the needs and expectations of the pleb community and (we hope) the vision of the CTO.

If I was posting content on some crappy social media site, I'd expect this kind of language.

For something marketed as "peer to peer" though...

101 sats \ 1 replies \ @k00b 19 Oct

I hope so! The CEO is a lawyer so they should know how to make something less overwhelming.

Which smells like fish to me.

isnt this project a dead-end as it uses ipfs ?