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Been on this beat a while now (e.g., #809392 and #834099).
Look, money ≠ wealth. Confusing the two is a perennial problem of Bitcoiners and precoiners alike. Makes me think economic illiteracy will be alive and well even under a bitcoin standard.
The monetary system isn't neutral, we all agree; the fiat system is a drag on the world's productivity, most brutally put by Knut Svanholm and Luke de Wolf in their new book, Bitcoin: The Inverse of Clown World:
Having said that, wealth is a real economic variable; it can be amassed and achieved under any monetary regime, fiat or not; sound or not; bitcoin or not.
That's why Seb Bunney's book doesn't work; it's all predicated on criticized insufficient wealth by pretending that better money fixes that: https://mises.org/mises-wire/monetary-systems-and-economic-outcomes-yes-they-are-related
The money itself can of course be more or less conducive to making the economy work better. If the economy works better (transaction costs, information, cross-border liquidity, payment processor s, bank failures) then of course in aggregate we are all wealthier and more people are somewhat better off.
What I find disingenuous with takes like HODL's here is that it implies just getting on bitcoin makes you rich, and it would therefore be a panacea for the world.
A panacea for the world bitcoin might be, but the more people make this wealth journey by riding bitcoin's monetization phase, the less far that journey will take you and the fewer people it can carry. Getting on bitcoin isn't a universally applicable fix for getting the whole world rich. The reward gets smaller and smaller for each additional person until all the monetary premia is drawn from every other asset (#830458) Not repeatable.
HODL is rich because, among other things, he gave up real goods and services for bitcoin before most others—and more importantly, managed to HODL it over time without having to sell. In no way does every human being magically get to spend tons of times with their kids just because the world switched to a better money.
Looking at a btc/usd chart (or a BTC/eggs etc) tells us a person in 2025 has to give up a lot more of those things than before. At some point in bitcoin's (near?) future, it won't yield generational-wealth type improvements in a person's wealth; at some point even Elizabeth Warren has to hold her money/portfolio in BTC, and there'll be no more fiat fat cats to drain.
Long before then, we will have expropriated and/or impoverished a lot of innocent people who had no idea they were part of a dying monetary regime. While innocent, they don't deserve what they have so I care only a little for their suffering. But Bitcoin's success is wrapped up with a lot of people seeing their fiat money balances dwindle to nothing, their fixed-income streams dwindle to pittances, their overleveraged real estate holdings collapse in (real) value.
It's not pretty. Every new HODLer that bitcoin's stratospheric success makes of each and any of us, there'll be precoiner fiaters greatly suffering. Has to be this way, but no need to celebrate it.

Basically: Just don't fucking dance.

That's today's (very) little money lesson Peace /J

apologies for typos and brevity etc; wrote this on the phone.
  • Also, Stop zapping me CCs. Real sats or nothing, please.
Bitcoin is better-quality money. But I don't think that it 'makes people rich'. Sure Bitcoin can be sold for a larger and larger 'exchange rate' over time... but that's not necessarily a reflection of Bitcoin being better-quality money.
The 'exchange rate' going up, to the extent it increases faster than the inflation-rate, is a result of price-discovery of Bitcoin the financial asset.
However the 'quality-money' characteristics are a reflection of its real world purchasing power, privacy, scalability, usability, transactability and universal trust and acceptance it earns over time.
Those things make Bitcoin 'better money' over time in a lasting way. Buying Bitcoin for 'cheaper' then selling it for 'more' later on in exchange for fiat... is price-speculation. It's not really using Bitcoin 'as money' in my opinion and doesn't count as such.
As far as people being 'late' or 'early' to Bitcoin... Bitcoin is a ~130-year experiment in non-state money. It is year 16 which means there are ~114 years to go so practically no-one alive today will see the last satoshi mined.
The next generation will... but a newborn baby todaywill not live that long so in-fact it is a multi-generational economic experiment.
Therefore anyone alive today with Bitcoin in cold storage... is very early to Bitcoin's eventual outcomes should it survive the next 100-200 years.
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This is the exact part of Bitcoin that everyone has to understand. Thanks. You said it in quite the simple words.
I agree. Still a long way to go for BTC but you'll find people already declared it one. But saying something is better money won't make it so until the money starts acting like one.
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I zapped you CC's, but I have a functioning attached sending wallet, so you have no one to blame but yourself.
I think there's an important element that you're missing in the discussion and might give HODL more of a leg to stand on. I see people writing all the time about how bitcoin helped them reprioritize how they live their lives.
There's no limit to how many people can be radically wealthier (a subjective value concept), because of how they reoriented their economic behavior after learning about bitcoin.
Will that happen for most people? Not a chance. It could happen for anyone, though.
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Yes, something is up. Not receiving it.
I don't have a clue what's up, and even less ability to do anything about it.
Can't begin to express how annoyed I am about this shit
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They convert into rewards sats very quickly, so it's not worth worrying about.
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Just zapped you from it, so clearly something is working
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it's working, and has been working all this time.
Jeez, there's gonna be some vicious denlillaapan rants coming up
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The money illusion is so ingrained it is very hard to dispel.
And you are right, people who advertise Bitcoin as a way to "get rich" are missing the point, and it's part of the reason so many orange pilling attempts failed. Because you haven't really explained Bitcoin, you just lumped it in with all the other asset classes for which the goal is NGU.
Bitcoin is just a public ledger of transactions that no one controls, anyone can write to, and yet somehow everyone trusts. If you want to understand Bitcoin, you need to understand this sentence and you need to understand why something like that is good!
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Bitcoin is so much more....to so many....talking in absolutes is difficult when it puts "baby in the corner" - lol
What about it being an open, secure, decentralized, protocol bounded by energy.... I mean it is pretty hard to say that has to only be a ledger?
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Fair enough. Though I'd say "open, secure, decentralized, protocol bounded by energy" are all key components of what enables it to be this public ledger that everyone trusts.
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Bitcoin is a seperate system from anything humanity has encountered - and as more people come to understand this and build upon it....it is going to continue to grow more and more valuable and become more and more ingrained into our daily living...until it becomes the system everything is based upon and we are writing history books about the dark ages under FIAT systems
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Everything for everyone! Perfect postmodern money!
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Beautiful
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Also, Stop zapping me CCs. Real sats or nothing, please.
Do you have attached wallet? I zapped sats and from the SN log you received CCs.
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I guess there's something wrong with it, then.
Have only zapped from it (last received zap was yesterday evening) today, and I keep racking up CCs.
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Check that you have the reception wallet set up correctly. I've had to reconfigure it to get it working properly again.
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Dude, I don't even understand how it got there in the first place (I clicked a bunch of buttons, whatever).
No idea how to reconfigure it, on a train or later tonight when I'm less annoyed.
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it's easy, just go to
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it works perfectly fine, apparently:
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exactly that
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210 sats \ 0 replies \ @Shugard 6 Jan
HODL is rich because, among other things, he gave up real goods and services for bitcoin before most others—and more importantly, managed to HODL it over time without having to sell. In no way does every human being magically get to spend tons of times with their kids just because the world switched to a better money
I want that pleas!
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Look, money ≠ wealth. Confusing the two is a perennial problem of Bitcoiners and precoiners alike. Makes me think economic illiteracy will be alive and well even under a bitcoin standard.
100%
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I liked this quote...
"But Bitcoin's success is tied to many people seeing their fiat money balances shrink to nothing, their fixed income flows shrink to a pittance, their over-leveraged real estate properties plummet in (real) value."
Personally, I don't see the journey I undertook and am happily on... towards Bitcoin making me a millionaire!!!
But it will provide me with support for my future and that of my family because I am saving in an asset that is
REAL AND LASTING!!
And that is undoubtedly the future of all economies as we know them today!!!
I think that each person is in control of their future and of what they are going to do with their Bitcoin later on...
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A millionaire in what... like a Satoshi-millionaire? Like having a million sats?
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The translator played a little joke on me... 🤦 I didn't mean to say that I'm becoming a millionaire...
I'm just saying that I'm not down the rabbit hole with that approach... With everything I've learned so far...
I've gained a lot and I'm happy about that...
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I'm more concerned about getting my family members on the life raft than celebrating the fact that I'm on it.
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25 sats \ 5 replies \ @nym 6 Jan
You could choose to set aside and create they’re own stash for them.
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I already DCA at the maximum that I can afford, it would be easier if they grabbed a paddle too, but we will just see if I can accrue enough on my own if they don't.
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that is the plan, certainly.
Would be nice if they helped haha
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They're coming around slowly...
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nym 6 Jan
I’m in the same boat
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literally, lol. See whatcha did there
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