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Need help with balancing a lightning channel using loop-out feature
264 sats \ 14 comments \ @charonnakamoto 11 Jan lightning

Context:

I am revisiting Lightning after stopping it 2 years back due to the pains of lightning channel management. This time, I am obsessed with unlocking BTC as a medium of exchange in my mind.

Issue

I am trying to get inbound liquidity using the loop out feature. I’m encountering an issue while trying to loop out (around 250K sats) using the Lightning Terminal. Every time(tried around ten times so far) I attempt it, I get this error:
Make sure your node is well connected to the network to ensure good pathfinding capability
When I tried to loop out around 300K sats on the Megalith channel, it worked on the first attempt. Since I have two active channels, my node seems to have decent connectivity.

My setup

I use Alby Hub, Thunder Hub, and Lightning Terminal on Umbrel.
Channel with ACINQ: Sending capacity: 0.5M sats Receiving capacity: 45K sats Fees: 100 PPM
Channel with Megalith: Sending capacity: 0.4M sats Receiving capacity: 0.6M sats Fees: 1000 PPM

Ask:

Can anyone help me figure out how to resolve this issue and successfully loop out? My goal is to maintain a balanced channel with ACINQ. Any advice on improving pathfinding or alternative strategies for rebalancing would be greatly appreciated!
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42 sats \ 13 replies \ @DarthCoin 11 Jan
Are you a routing node or just a normal user using LN for few payments? I wrote several guides about how to manage liquidity, but first you need to ask that question to yourself. Otherwise you will NEVER get properly that node to run.
Depending on your answer there are different strategies. https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes-en.html
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21 sats \ 10 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 11 Jan
I am a user using LN for a few payments. I am not trying to run a profitable node with many public channels. All my channels are private, and I want to keep them that way.
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134 sats \ 9 replies \ @DarthCoin 11 Jan
fine. then you do not need any rebalancing. Done. Rebalancing is only needed for routing nodes. Just refill your drained channels when is needed.
You cannot use loop out with private channels, only public. Here I wrote a simple guide about private liquidity #679242
To have more inbound simply buy bigger inbound channels or move out to temporary wallets part of your balance. When is needed back just move it back. Just do not treat your private node as a public one. Is not the same.
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20 sats \ 8 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 11 Jan
I appreciate your taking time out to give detailed directions. I have been reading your guides on LN even before your suggestion, and they are top-notch. Keep up the great work that you are doing!
The ultimate goal I am trying to accomplish is that I am trying to release some sats to open a channel with SN :) I will do this via Boltz swap on ThunderHub instead of breaking my head with the loop-out feature. Plus, the secondary goal is to familiarize myself with LN again.
You cannot use loop out with private channels, only public.
I do not think this is accurate, as I did a loop out on my private Megalith channel today. Attached is the Lightning Terminal screenshot of that transaction.
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9 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin 11 Jan
Loop is a complex thing, for public routing nodes that need continuously liquidity on both sides. Is not meant for private nodes. Private nodes are NOT visible in the whole LN graph so loop in/out must be done through route hints using your direct LSP. You could done only maybe loop out but loop in will never be possible. They cannot "see" your node, at least you can indicate route hints, but that is another complicated story.
Keep things simple: If you have more outbound liquidity and want just open a new channel with existing sats, just use any swap service out there, like boltz, swap market or whatever, receiving back into your onchain wallet and from there open the new channel. This one is pretty cool https://swapmarket.github.io/
On next release we will have integrated swaps into Alby Hub too: #843421
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20 sats \ 5 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 11 Jan
This one is pretty cool https://swapmarket.github.io/
I just tried this, and it worked like a charm; thanks for the recommendation. Used middle way instead of Boltz and saved an additional 0.1% of fees, haha
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 12 Jan
LN BTC to on-chain worked here smoothly. However, I tried to do on-chain to LN. But I haven't received the funds on LN despite six on-chain confirmations. The person from MiddleWay on Telegram has been extremely helpful but cannot identify the root cause of the issue. Now, I am having to figure out the refund mechanism. So, not a great experience there.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Jan
As i said, but seems that you do not understand. To receive correctly into your LN channels you MUST provide route hints. Otherwise who is sending you the sats over LN cannot see your channels. The wallet interface you are using for your private node MUST insert route hints.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 11 Jan
How exciting to see channel management features coming into Alby Hub!
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @charonnakamoto OP 12 Jan
Hi @DarthCoin, what's the simplest way to find out the fees of a lightning channel before opening it? I am unable to find that on 1ml/amboss/lightningnetwork.plus. Once the channel ios opened, it is easy to see on Thunderhub:
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @charonnakamoto OP 12 Jan
what's the simplest way to find out the fees of a lightning channel before opening it? I am unable to find that on 1ml/amboss/lightningnetwork.plus.
Never mind, I found it on Amboss. Am I reading this correctly?
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