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Examples of culture being downstream from technology?

1054 sats \ 10k boost \ 26 comments \ @SimpleStacker 21 Jan Politics_And_Law

zaps forwarded to @k00b (50%)

@k00b's post #859025 had this byline from the Open Source Defense podcast:

In-depth interviews with outstanding founders and builders in the civilian defense industry. Culture is upstream of politics, and technology is upstream of culture.

I've heard of "politics is downstream from culture", but not "culture is downstream from technology", and I thought the idea was interesting enough to deserve its own post.

In what ways have you observed that culture is downstream from technology?

I think, for example, that recent political divisiveness may have arisen from the format and incentives built into social media. Any other examples?

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284 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

Another example could be how a lot of bitcoiners reported a changing time preference after they got into Bitcoin. More stacking, less spending, all motivated by a technology that allows real savings

393 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b fwd 21 Jan

We seem to blame technology for cultural problems first - eg why we don't trust institutions, why teens are depressed and single - which is at least one data point from the wise crowd.

I think if you look at any tech - cars, video games - you can find cultures formed around them. I expect macroculture to be downstream of microculture and that these technologies at least exert a weak, derivative force on broader culture.

This also loosely reminds me of Technological determinism and splitting the atom of cause and effect - Lyn's theory is that communication technology determined money technology.

@Car is fond of saying ~culture is downstream of ~music which is a form of ~tech.

243 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

Speaking of the atom, some of my favorite cultural products arose out of the fear of nuclear war. Namely, the Fallout video game series and the Watchmen graphic novel.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 21 Jan

Just because something is downstream of technology doesn’t mean it receives it last or necessarily first. History suggests it often gets an early, half-baked version instead.

Steve Jobs discussed computers as a new medium of communication.

Historically, each new medium—like radio, television, or the internet—began by mimicking its predecessor before developing its unique characteristics.

I actually wrote about this last year on Thriller and tend to think about this a lot. I've come to the conclusion like everyone that its just iterative.

https://www.thrillerbitcoin.com/communication-medium-sunday-orange-flow/

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Jan

Humans like to blame things outside of their control. Its a way that we can absolve ourselves of responsibility for solutions and blame. Most of all it can be an excuse for doing nothing.

Its true of me with blaming government for so many problems. It almost doesn't matter if we are correct because its outside of our control. I might say the government is doing something and its terrible. As an individual I have very minimal effect on that. But... what can I do in response to avoid the negative consequences?

Well that takes work and its much easier to call out statists and collect my sats from the people that like my memes...

Preaching to myself but I think many here are hit by this too if they're honest.

188 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 21 Jan

For sure, the screen thing. If we didn't have the (smartphone) tech, we would not, as a culture, be constantly staring at the little device that sucks up so much of our life.

Just yesterday I was at a tire repair place, and had to stay in the waiting room a while. And EVERYONE else was on their phone the entire time. I took off and walked around the area a bit (Walmart, McDonalds).

It feels so wrong that there's no more spontaneous conversation or anything in places like this anymore.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

I even remember in college, a big moment is when I instant-messaged my apartment-mate instead of just walking over to his room to talk to him. It hit me that things were changing in a weird way.

130 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Jan

This seems almost tautological to me.

Technologies are the mechanisms of action. The way we (economists) use the term is just that it's how people transform the resources they have into the resources they want, usually that's for the purpose of selling them, but it doesn't have to be.

New technologies inherently mean different ways of acting and "culture" is a broad set of descriptions for how people in a particular group act.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

Oh shiiiiii, that is so true.

So, just like in macro models,

really does drive everything!

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Jan

Sometimes, macro models have their merits. Don't tell anyone I said that, though.

108 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 21 Jan

Firearms. Firearms revolutionized the ability for Lords to control large areas of land by making the knight vulnerable to attack from a distance.

At least this is what I've read historians say and explains why the knights as a method of control died.

73 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

That's interesting. But I wonder its power to explain the demise of feudalism. Couldn't lords just equip their knights with modern arms and armor? Wonder if it has to do with the relative importance of training & upbringing vs. mass production in warfare.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Jan

Yeah, I wonder about it as well. I think there's more complexity there.

The knight was pretty much invincible with his armor, weapons, and horse vs. a large number of plebs. Give a couple plebs fire-arms and the field is leveled.

98 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 21 Jan

Birth control:

As a technology the invention of the birth control pill revolutionized the family, the workforce, and women's autonomy in ways we are still figuring out.

70 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

So true. That's a huge one.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Jan

I think its important will all of the things I mentioned that all of them had positives and negatives. They all have third order effects. We seem to lack the ability to discuss these topics because our culture is so fragile and bipolar.

250 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 21 Jan

Printing press:

The printing press transformed European culture and governance. I don't think you'd have the protestant reformation without that tech. Its impacts were not limited to that but to me its the biggest impact. It weakened the power of the Catholic Church over the people.

39 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

Another great one, how could I forget!

30 sats \ 3 replies \ @plebpoet 21 Jan

hold on, you seem to be interchanging both upstream and downstream to mean the same thing?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Jan

No, I just like to think of the word "downstream", but the byline used "upstream"

"Technology is upstream of culture" == "Culture is downstream of technology"

Both mean that technology determines culture rather than the other way around.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b fwd 21 Jan

They reverse them according to what's upstream and downstream.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 22 Jan

@plebpoet he has been on a tenet kick all year, it's the Balaji paradox where everything in the future will happen just in reverse, @ODELL says this in a similar way but calls it Mandibles then Bitcoin standard.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 21 Jan

Social media as a cultural phenomenon is downstream from the technology that enables it.

From first principles it makes sense that culture is downstream from technology. Inventing tech is uncovering the mysteries of the Universe, and as they get uncovered by bright individuals, the masses adopt the things they enable. You couldn't have had social media in the Middle Ages, even if people had wanted them (which they didn't, we needed intermediate technologies like the printing press, electricity, radio communication, computers, the internet and smartphones for that desire to even emerge).

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 21 Jan

Squid game, logan's run, dune etc

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21 Jan

The Reformation would not have succeeded without the printing press which also created conditions for 30 year religious wars

Literacy also increased so technology allows one to consume more culture

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 22 Jan

Chivalry. Examples maybe are not exclusive to but often associated with vehicles.

Opening the door for passengers (as a chauffeur)
Men walking on the side closest to the traffic on roads

I think there were more like popularization of men's belts and ladies' suspenders used for fan belts and such. Yeeeea.