pull down to refresh

"I'm not a big fan of capitalism myself, and I worry about nature being destroyed by humans," she said, driving at 50mph through a 7km tunnel connecting two isolated villages at the edge of the world. The car was warm and comfortable, the clothes on her back nice and made industrially and inexpensively by humans she doesn't know far, far away from here.
Not doxxing my friend here, or the very ignorant—and performatively contradictory—take she gives voice to here, I find it unbelievably common for regular people to adopt this sort of mindset. Pay lip service to some noisy/intellectually hygiene-type idea while ignoring it completely in practice.
To most people in the intelligentsia (#829287), this signals that we're "not doing enough" and we gotta "further force our obviously-correct ideas onto the public."

To me, it's the reverse: it just means the words don't really matter much slash mean as much as you think they do.

Roger Pielke Jr.'s iron law of climate policy holds: Whenever policies for economic growth run up against emissions reductions, economic growth will win out.

There's a Mises Institute article I wrote last year that I keep coming back to, in thought and passing moreso than directly quoting it "Climate Worries Are Non-Credible, Luxury Beliefs That Harm Civilization Itself."
I live in a small village at the edge of lands surrounded by very harsh nature. Those who occupied these valleys in ages past lived ruthlessly dangerous lives, where starvation was a constant worry, the sea just as often nurtured as it took away, and the winters were long and perilous. Nowadays, while I’m walking the desolate mountains or admiring the fierce storms from inside my nice, sheltered existence, echoing in my head is Thomas Hobbes’s descriptions of man’s precivilizational life: “Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”
In the 2020s, we live fairly comfortable lives here, my fellow villagers and I. Our hearths are warm, our command over economic goods excellent. We live long, safe lives, where nobody starves and where almost nobody perishes in outbursts of nature’s wrath. We use machines—constructed far, far away using materials we don’t have, that run on fossil fuels that these lands don’t contain—to move away the snow that frequently and predictably lands on our doorsteps and otherwise would have made our roads impassable and our houses prisons. We use different machines—constructed far, far away using materials we don’t have, that run on fossil fuels that these lands don’t contain—to get ourselves out of our valley and transport goods and services back, including exotic fruits and vegetables that never grow here (certainly not in winter!).
I find actions much more important than words; having been schooled in Austrian economics, I find the reality of what a person does matter critically whereas the words that live on top of our conscious mind (Jonathan Haidt-style) be ephemeral and mostly irrelevant.

That's why I don't put much stock in the green revolutions and anti-fossil fuel/modern world crusades. They are—as the title of that Mises article suggests—not credible.

Look, you're driving a car nobody except under global capitalism could construct. You have, globally speaking, a top-10% income looking after some kids at a cushy ~7 hours a day. You can order, per John Maynard Keynes, absolutely anything you like from the comfort of your bed. You're not subject to starvation, ever; the elements can only harm you insofar as you voluntarily venture out in them—and the houses you can hunker down inside are built with materials and powered by energy (-ish) that don't stem from here.
All of this can only be assembled and organized under humanity's most ingenuous discovery ever: price system, profit motives, a global division of labor (#793537).
In short, the essence of that very capitalism you say you don't like.
So I don't worry much about what the weather does, or what people who say they really care about the weather say or do. Their beliefs and worries, anxiety and hysterics are not credible. Please go away.
I find it unbelievably common for regular people to adopt this sort of mindset. Pay lip service to some noisy/intellectually hygiene-type idea while ignoring it completely in practice.
To be fair, I think it's quite rational. My personal actions mean very little towards the fate of the climate, so why should I unilaterally sacrifice my standard of living? It's a classic Prisoner's Dilemma, which is why the climate cultists want to take away personal freedoms.
The cold hard logic of climate alarmism is that someone's standard of living must be sacrificed, and thus it is absolutely a game of political power to determine whose. The globalists have done a pretty good job of convincing the masses to fight each other about this while they continue to live in luxury.
Of course, you could adopt another view, which is that the so-called climate catastrophe is overblown and that humans will adapt in any case. I think this second thesis is more likely, given that ecological alarmists have been consistently wrong about stuff for decades. Maybe they're right this time, but the track record doesn't lend much confidence.
reply
yeah, I'm 110% in the second camp.
reply
Climate change is no longer a threat of the future. Already, hurricanes are becoming more powerful, forests are burning, and people are dying from heat waves, drought, floods, and famine. Such extreme weather events are quickly becoming the rule, not the exception.
Are these words only words? Yes, I know people who generally talk about climate change don't necessarily care to change their ways for it. But this doesn't and won't change the reality.
reply
Reject the premise.
It's just not true, a) as a statement or fact, b) as a credible, reliable prediction for the future.
reply
I'm not trying to take it as a premise but I'm worried having listened to more and more powerful calamities happening around the world than were in my life's past. I don't look it from either of capitalist or communist perspective/propoganda but I feel that there's no harm in planting more trees. I do it and I encourage everyone to do it. I'm also against the whatever plantation or green coridor development projects that the world is focused at in the deserts.
Overall I mean that we need to have an open mind to the climate concerns and the need to sustainable development.
reply
Saying that does not make it true. Your statement is not backed by the overwhelming majority of science. Climate change is accepted by the vast majority of scientists, and you are not one.
reply
Hello communism friendly bot! ;)
reply
Hello troll who cannot respond to the facts and issues raised so instead seeks to shoot the messenger...
reply
Hello human being the bot! So now you've adopted to start-stop functionality. Well done. At least our trolling has changed the way you previously used to reply.
reply
You consistently avoid the facts and issues raised. You have not refuted them...or even addressed them. You only demonstrate, repeatedly, that when your dogma is challenged you respond by attacking the messenger...rather than with reason and logic.
reply
Should bots have rights or rites?
Should respondents like @IamSINGLE who fail to provide any credible response to the facts and issues raised be able to avoid the logic, norms and expectations of a reasoned contest of ideas by falsely calling the first commenter a bot or are they simply exposing themselves as lazy bad faith trolls, who repeatedly avoid reasoned debate?
The overwhelming majority of "scientists" are a combination of idiots with narrow-minded focus on singular, isolated topics (that don't add up to the massive eschatological story they tell).
What they say—more importantly, what extreme distortions get propagated through think-tanks and journalists—matters not.
reply
I could equally say exactly the same of Libertarians - but without even approaching and addressing directly the subject matter it would be simply empty and lazy rhetoric- as is yours.
reply
Libertarians
Again!!
reply
you're driving a car nobody except under global capitalism could construct.
You seem to be forgetting about the triumph of communism known as the Trabont
reply
I am, indeed, overlooking this wonderful feat of communist engineering.
What was the wait for it, 10 years?
reply
What I remembered was that expecting parents were putting their unborn children on the wait lists, in the hopes that one would be available when their kids turned driving age.
reply
Ignore the fact that China ostensibly Communist (in reality mixed communist and capitalist) now produces cars at a lower cost of production and higher volumes than any other economy on the planet.
The wests leader Trump now throws market distortionary tariffs on Chinese cars in an act of massive hypocrisy...and admission that the wests crony capitalism cannot compete with Chinas strategically Mixed economy where strong government management is central to maximising Chinas strategic competitive advantage.
Communist China has won the trade war- with all other nations dependent upon Chinas mixed economy for the best valuer manufactured goods and the best commodity prices.
Libertarians must look the other way as reality does not conform to their deluded dogma.
reply
The problem is that this is where the political cover to do all the dumb green shit comes from.
While you're right that they aren't going to go through with reducing us all to subsistence level poverty, the nonsense that is enacted does create a drag on our economy and that loss compounds over time.
reply
Has anyone else watched this? I thought it was pretty enlightening:
reply
Nope! Will check it out, thx
reply
It blows my mind sometimes how gullible people can be. But then I remember I fell for it too. I was kid, granted but propaganda is strong.
In the end energy is life and people will choose life.
reply
"Climate Worries Are Non-Credible, Luxury Beliefs That Harm Civilization Itself
Wow is that a true statement. Clean food and water, reliable energy, protection from the elements are all real problems in much of the world. Things fixed by wealth created by free markets but the small rise in temperatures over time is the single greatest threat to man... Its bullshit and the elites know it. Instead of focus on mitigating the supposed issues of the change in climate (that happens naturally as well) we must grant even more power to elites that claim they can fix it while their own plans clearly will not "fix" it.
Its an absurd thing that will die. It was pumped into me in the 90s as a kid and I bought into it because I was a kid. As I started learning that grown ups lie all the time I became skeptical. Then I watched as their dire predictions never happened. Then I read their plans and it became clear. It's a grift.
It will die. We all should be care for the earth but communism is a death sentence.
reply
We all should be care for the earth but communism is a death sentence. I'll steal that quote, thank you very much!
reply
You can't steal it but you can copy it ;)
reply
Libertarians can and do ignore the overwhelming global scientific consensus that climate change is real. These Libertarians whose dogma asserts free markets will solve all problems ignore the fact that free markets cannot solve the climate change problem because the users of fossil fuels do not pay for the consequential effects of their consumption. Its a very simple reality that Libertarians consistently ignore. They are virtue signalling within their own circle jerking death cult.
reply
This is a stupid take, sir.
Happy to flush out the nuances in a stand-alone post.
For now, you're welcome to look at some of my writing on the topic https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/climate-catastrophism-and-a-sensible-environmentalism/
reply
You don’t do anyone any favours by calling someone’s contribution ‘stupid’. You started this thread, discuss and debate.
reply
If it is a stupid take you should be capable of responding to it directly and here, rather than demanding readers go to some other source for your claimed logical response...and thus denying this thread sequential reasoning and right of response.
Put your response here where it can form a logical and sequential chain of reason- or admit by default you are incapable of such sequential and good faith contest of ideas.
reply
Here you go, friends
reply
If it is a stupid take you should be capable of responding to it directly and here, rather than demanding readers go to some other source for your claimed logical response...and thus denying this thread sequential reasoning and right of response. Put your response here where it can form a logical and sequential chain of reason- or admit by default you are incapable of such sequential and good faith contest of ideas.
Looks like you are incapable of sequential contest of ideas Here On This Thread. So that anyone following this post can decide the merits or otherwise for themselves within this thread. Do it here...or concede by default you cannot.
reply
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.