Price gouging, then and now \ stacker news ~econ

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272 sats \ 10 comments \ @Signal312 28 Jan econ

301 A.D., Price Edict of Roman Emperor Diocletian ¹

Who has so insensible a heart or has removed himself so far from human feeling that he can fail to know ... to what an extent shameless pricing has spread? Neither abundance of goods nor the bounty of good years tempers this unrestrained lust for stealing!

Since human feeling itself seems to beg for relief, we have taken the position, not that we must set prices of goods and services for sale .... but that we must set a limit. When some expensiveness should arise (the gods forbid it!) the greed that could not be restrained, as if it ranged in fields spread over some limitless expanse, will be choked off by the limits of our statute and the boundaries of a moderating law.

Today, in Los Angeles:

California Attorney General Rob Bonta told LAist partner KCAL News earlier this week that the ban on price gouging applies to housing as well as other essential goods like food, transportation and medical supplies. Bonta said residents should report suspected price gouging through his office’s website.

“If prices look really out of whack — if they look like they've increased from what you're used to — report it to us,” Bonta said. “We'll take it from there. We'll evaluate it. We'll hold folks accountable and enforce if necessary.”

The source for the Diocletian quote is https://kark.uib.no/antikk/dias/priceedict.pdf. It's a fascinating read, you learn incidentally what all the products for sale were in ancient Rome. Here's a sample: XVI.1. For glass, ivory, needles 1a Alexandrian glass 1 lb 24 2 Judaean greenish glass 1 lb 13 3 Alexandrian plain glass cups and vessels 1 lb 30 4 Judaean plain glass cups and vessels 1 lb 20 5 Window glass, best quality 1 lb 8 6 For ivory and tortoise 6a Ivory 1 lb 150 7 Shield of tortoise from India 1 lb 100 8 For needles 8a Sewing needle, very fine 4 9 Sewing needle, second quality 2 10 Needle for sewing sacks or packsaddles 2 ↩

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94 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 28 Jan

Why allow any incentive to those who are willing and able to help the rebuilding effort?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 29 Jan

No, the idea was to burn out the people, set up new 15-minute smart cities and let the area be redeveloped for the ‘28 Olympic Games. That wasn’t so hard to understand, was it?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 29 Jan

Misery loves company

30 sats \ 4 replies \ @Signal312 OP 29 Jan

Food for thought...why is it that some things are not called price gouging, but clearly are, if you apply the same logic?

For instance, hotel rooms, that "price gouge" on popular summer weekends. Why does nobody get upset over that?

44 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 29 Jan

Serious answer -- people have some moral intuitions about fairness that extend beyond traditional economic analysis. Thus, gouging someone in a time of disaster is looked on differently than gouging someone on their luxury trip.

I think when economists / libertarians / conservatives / anyone fail to acknowledge that, they undermine their own influence and credibility. (Fair or not.)

Instead, I usually communicate my price-gouging stance like this:

"Would I personally raise prices that much in a time of emergency? No, because I wouldn't feel good about it. However, I think if all the political energy is spent attacking price gougers, then that's a distraction. Because all anti price-gouging laws do is change who can get the housing... it doesn't change how much housing is available."

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 OP 29 Jan

Good point. The whole "disaster" aspect of things adds a new dimension.

I wonder if I would say that though, if I were trying to communicate my stance. Cause for me it's actually not true.

If there were some disaster, and lots of people were desperate for housing, but I had a spare room, I actually would consider renting it out, and at a higher price than normal. Because otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

But it's certainly understandable, at a gut level, that the immediate reaction is not, "Isn't it great that economic incentives have pushed people to provide more housing".

Instead, it's "That price-gouging scum, trying to make money off people's suffering!".

I don't know how to communicate it any better though.

68 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 29 Jan

Yeah, a bit of nuance.... I only meant that I wouldn't price-gouge during a disaster assuming I was already advertising a room for rent.

But if I wasn't already looking for a tenant, I wouldn't offer it up during the disaster either... unless there was a significant reason to do so, financial or otherwise. (Instead, i'd probably keep that room available for friends or family in need)

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasko 29 Jan

Because all anti price-gouging laws do is change who can get the housing... it doesn't change how much housing is available.

Exactly, if rent was allowed to double in price in an area how many people would consider renting out their house who hadn't previously?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 29 Jan

There is no such thing as price gouging, It is a made-up fiction of feverish progressive/lefty/Marxist/socialist/communist/murderers’ minds! The only way there could be price gouging is if the state sets it up and approves of it. Then the gouging begins. All other sales on the free market are freely made in accordance with the laws of supply and demand. Free pricing is the only way to distribute the goods to the people with the strongest desires for the goods.

BTW, the ~~price ceiling~~ gouging laws never work the way people want them to work. There is always a shortage of goods that way.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 29 Jan

Yup history repeats. We need more people to study it and read the Bitcoin standard

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