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Yesterday, the integration of USDT with Lightning was announced on PlanBForum.
This is mentioned in a post by X on this subject: "it involves integrating both the base layer of Bitcoin and its instant payment layer, Lightning Network, these stablecoins, thanks to the implementation of Taproot in its protocol, which allows the tokenization of assets that are transferable by both layers"
Was it necessary? Does Bitcoin really need this movement?
Why the expression "It all comes back to Bitcoin"?
I'm actually a neophyte in Bitcoin. But this announcement doesn't quite fit me. I just don't understand what one thing has to do with the other. If a person is afraid of Bitcoin's volatility, then they should look for their personal solution or continue using fiat, which is also volatile but devaluing. Lightning Lab and Lightning solutions seemed very aligned to me, but now with Theter?
It is obvious that as my grandfather used to say, "no one makes a stitch without a thimble"
What is behind this? Some even already suggest that it will help to solve the prohibition of Theter in Europe by the MICA law.
Whatever. I don't like to mix gold with shit. I don't give a damn about the price of Bitcoin. For me 1 BTC = 1 BTC, the rest is fiat thinking. The question is how will this continue and how will it affect, not the adoption, the functioning of Bitcoin?
ESPAÑOL
Se encendió la mecha. USDT EN BITCOIN
Ayer fue anunciado en PlanBForum la integración de USDT con Lightning.
Esto se menciona en una publicación de X sobre este asunto: "supone integrar tanto en la capa base de Bitcoin, como en su capa de pagos instantáneos, Lightning Network. estas stablecoins, gracias a la implantación de Taproot en su protocolo, que permite tokenizar activos que sean transmisibles por ambas capas"
Era necesario? En realidad Bitcoin necesita de este movimiento?
Por qué la expresión "It all come back to Bitcoin" ?
En realidad soy un neófito en Bitcoin. Pero este anuncio no me acaba de encajar. Es que no entiendo que tiene que ver una cosa con otra. Si una persona le teme a la volatilidad de Bitcoin, pues que busque su solución personal o que siga usando fiat que también es volátil pero devaluandose. Lightning Lab con las soluciones Lightning me han parecido muy alineados, pero ahora con Theter?
Es evidente que como decía mi abuelo " nadie da puntada sin dedal"
Qué hay detrás de esto? Incluso ya algunos plantean que ayudará a una solución contra la prohibición de Theter en europa por la ley MICA.
Como sea. A mí no me gusta que se mezcle el oro con la mierda. A mí el precio de Bitcoin me importa un pepino. Para mí 1 BTC= 1 BTC, lo demás es pensamiento fiat. La pregunta es ¿cómo seguirá esto y cómo afectará, no la adopción, el funcionamiento de Bitcoin?
Depends on how big this thing gets, the majority of USDt is sitting on TRON and ETH and is used for all sorts of speculation and keeping shitcoin pairs relatively liquid while the rest sits on exchanges allowing people to move in and out and trade
Tethers on liquid, no one uses it, maybe Tethers on Lightning do catch a bid more than liquid but for now I see this as a nothing burger
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Why are shitstablecoins on shitcoin chains anyway? Aren't they centralized/custodial no matter what? They could just keep the offchain in the first place.
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This is actually a great and under appreciated point. Why don't stable coin companies just run their own, internal database instead of using centralized shitcoins? It would be more efficient.
I suspect the answer has something to do with "holding customer funds". Using "decentralized" coins gives them legal refuge. Except, as you point out, those shitcoins have incorrectly been labeled "decentralized" and "commodities" by the US, when they're actually very centralized and security-like in nature.
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I also just noticed that them being onchain allows for atomic swapping i.e. buying and selling shitcoins for stablecoins in one single onchain transaction. It also allows for stablecoins chaning hands without the centralized issuer interacting.
They're still shitcoins tho. When the centralized reserve holder (i.e. Thether) rugpulls them they will hopefully learn.
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Indeed they could run things client side and just have an API that plugins into wallets but I think there was so much money in "blockchain" funding and bringing a product like stablecoins to your blockchain made it more attractive and generated transaction volume and fees that they kinda just ended up there.
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What you wrote is true, but its missing the current political context:
The US Dept Commerce / Treasury wants stablecoin use to explode.
Lutnick, who was Trumps initial choice at Treasury (who wound up at Commerce), is the ex CEO at Cantor Fitzgerald. They are the group that manages Tethers treasury. So he understands very well the power of (a) stablecoin adoption outside US borders, and (b) how to create a collateral base for stablecoins using US Treasuries + Bitcoin. He understands this because he has managed their book and help devise the strategy.
Their vision is simply "If every person on the planet can have USD stablecoins on their phone, why would BRICS be a threat?" Its a great question.
Its 100% in USA best interest to promote this view, as it permits them total financial dominance that makes Bretton Woods 2.0 look quite conservative in comparison.
Its by no accident that Tether is now pushing an integration directly with Bitcoin as this is the exact vision of current US Gov.
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USDt is very popular in Latin America, more popular than btc
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Which is absolutely insane to me. Why would people of a foreign country want to use the currency of a different nation?.... ESPECIALLY when they know the other nation can and will print more of the currency to enrich themselves at the expense of the foreigners using said currency.
Latin America is ensuring they always remain subservient to the politics of the US. They're literally choosing slavery. It baffles me. They should love Bitcoin.
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19 sats \ 0 replies \ @guts 31 Jan
They want price stability unlike Bitcoin, you are speaking lightly the dirty hands of the US in Latin America
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I recommend you go visit the countries in Latin America
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On May 19, 2023 @DarthCoin writes about Taproot Assets, on May 31, 2023 @siggy47 also writes about it asking if it was good or bad. In one of the comments DarthCoin mentions the following:
"Taro, also known as TapAss, is designed to be used by corporations, businesses, financial institutions, rentals, or any other financial entity that needs/wants to issue digital assets and trade them or use them for their financial instruments.
Here we can say: a corporation like Microstrategy that wants to issue bonds or stocks and trade them in a decentralized way or move them between owners, without resorting to legacy financial systems.
tapass is not for the plebs to go buy a coffee! It will either fix the liquidity of their shitty node or speed up the opening of their on-chain channels, etc... Stop thinking about that!
TapAss DOES NOT SOLVE ANYTHING that can be broken. It just creates new friction."
Then he puts the following meme
He said it more than a year ago. He's not a prophet but...
Chapó @DarthCoin
you are baffled because you are willfully ignorant
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Yep, my company has customers there and also Africa. Its popular both places.
90% of those don't make enough money to consider savings, they are living on $300 per month - and its $300 in / $300 out, theres no luxury to consider investing in BTC to gain "58% 5 year CAGR".
They are solely after a transactional currency that offers relatively low month-to-month inflation. They are dealing with local currencies can inflate 10% per month. That sort of month-to-month inflation can be ruinous if you are living payday to payday.
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Too many bitcoiners and libertarians live in a bubble of relative wealth and privilege
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Yep. Its their "Luxury belief"
They slam on progressives for their "truck drivers should just learn to code" statements and then say "that poor african should just allocate 25% of their disposable income to bitcoin and hodl for 4 years"
Ahora, en el mismo lugar donde se anunció Lightning+USDT.
Now in the same place where Lightning+USDT was announced
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For sure, Makes sense to push global demand of tether on the front end to backstop bond issuance on the back end!
But what's the end game? I still feel like it's a niche product for certain people who remit, trade across boarders or have poor local financial services. In South Africa for example, you can have USDT but you need a liquidity provider like an exchange to get goods and services, which is ultimately what people want.
As for a macros side lets say a nation goes onto a USDT standard, it now has no wiggle room to devalue their currency to remain competitive or ease their debt burden?
I do think there's merit to the dollar milkshake theory I just don't think its the only force at play
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I was expecting this meme. What the hell is going on? All I hope is that the protocol doesn't have any problems. Now I have to put up with the shitcoiners' nonsense. Although I don't give a damn about that nonsense. We have to deal with everything. I don't see any point in this mix.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 31 Jan
I'm with you, but if you could relay LN PSBT pre-images over fax, VOIP, or carrier pigeon, does that mean that we can't have fax machines, internet or birds? Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic but the same can be said for many things. Knife crime is a problem. Every kitchen has a knife and they are extermely useful for cutting meat, vegetables and bread. What are you going to do about it? Either you live in an autharitarian backwater where governments start demanding you have a license for a pencil and a sheet of paper. Or society deals with crime how it has generally in the civilized world. You have police forces, inverstigations and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Otherwise, what are we paying taxes for?
People do good and bad with Tether I guess (after they convert it into currency.)
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Asere esto es serio, que cojones le pasa a esta gente, hasta hablan de la capa 1. Pienso que por el protocolo en sí no deba pasar algo terrible, pero si tú dices que hay algo peor por venir. Entre los gobiernos cargándose los Bitcoin con la maquina de imprimir, las empresas cargándose lo otro que hay con lo que nos roban junto con los gobiernos y los bancos. La mezcla de mierda con Bitcoin. Man esto está malo.
Dude, this is serious. I think that the protocol itself should not cause anything terrible, but if you say that there is something worse to come. Between governments destroying Bitcoin with the printing press, companies destroying everything else that they steal from us along with governments and banks. The mixture of shit with Bitcoin. Man, this is bad.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @sime 31 Jan
Was just messaging a friend about this, but from a quick look TAP doesn't have censorship like features.
Which is odd, because Tether didn't go to rootstock because they didn't have account freezing features.
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This is how the overlords will try again to take over Bitcoin.... And wait for the worst to come...
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Oh cool, they really WILL try to drill into our skulls to install microchips?
Who wuddathunk, I mean it has only been prophesized for at least 4 decades...
This makes me even happier that I have living in a cave on my todo list!
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sponsored by... Bitfinex and Phizer
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Think they will offer inscribing seed phrases into our DNA soon, too?
Worst thing is that a lot would go for that...
lol whenever I hear a British womans voice over some corporate B-roll I automatically think scam
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I would rather be scammed by any random Nigerian than MI6... At least that would not be lethal
USDT on Bitcoin... Trojan horse. Not for Bitcoiners. For the state.
USDT opens possibilities:
  • OFAC/FATF regulations/compliance
  • LN becomes a banking infrastruture
  • LSPs and LN wallets as Money Business and Money Transfer Services
  • KYC/AML LN wallets (primal)
  • Freezing of funds (USDT does that)
  • USDT works with government agencies
  • Fiat strengthens
  • Bitcoin demand lessens
  • Bigger surveillance network
Only retards celebrate this.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @fiatbad 31 Jan
I agree with this. And this is why I'm sympathetic to Roger Ver's argument that the conservative nature of BTC is going to be its downfall because it buys time for the Creature-From-Jekyll-Island to fight back and dominate. Bitcoin HAD momentum as a global, neutral, medium-of-exchange. It has lost that momentum because store-of-value narratives were stronger.
I'm not saying I agree with Roger. I'm not saying we should prioritize MoE over SoV. But I do think the BTC community has grown FAR too complacent when it comes to gaining and keeping at least SOME momentum around MoE, instead of completely losing the initiative altogether.
Most Bitcoiners have never even used Lightning before. They don't mind using dollars, and seem to enjoy the convenience of it. It state, and The Creature seem to be winning this battle while Bitcoiners drool over their temporary NGU empire.
BTC is NOT ready to ossify. A few more important upgrades need to be in place first (such as CTV). And the community needs to start demanding it instead of sitting around staring at their NGU the way Gollum stares at the ring.
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Strong narratives derive from weak people. People don't understand power. They should.
Many actually agree with Roger than disagree. That's OK. You can agree with him on some things and not on others. Life's messy, not binary.
IMO: focus on you and what you can do. Everyone now, have to figure it out.
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I dont' really understand what "on LN" would mean. What are they doing with/to the LN to achieve this?
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He who has the gold/treasuries makes the rules.
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I live in LATAM, and even worse in a communist country, with a prisoner's salary being a professional and working like an animal. I came to Bitcoin very recently, I didn't know Bitcoin without Lightning. But the little I know helps me realize that it is likely that at some point, before Lightning, solutions arose or were made suggestions, solutions to fix scalability. But that is already resolved. So what remains is the fear of volatility as a supposed cause of non-adoption.
Now I give my point of view. Very humble.
Let's go to El Salvador. Bitcoin can be used no matter what and has full support. They have Blink, which uses StableSat, the same shitcoin as USDT. People may earn more or less. EVEN HAVING GOVERNMENT SUPPORT AND A WALLET WITH STABLE CURRENCY, ADOPTION IS POOR and don't tell me that education is.
So, is it really a need to make that invention? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION THERE IS SOMETHING BEHIND THIS CRAP.
Also, except for Speedwallet, which is an easy-to-use custodial wallet, the others they are proposing are more difficult to use than even Blixt and Zeus, which are actually pretty cool.
ESPAÑOL
Vivo en LATAM, y peor aún en un país comunista, con un salario de preso siendo un profesional y trabajando como un animal. Llegué a Bitcoin hace muy poco tiempo, no conocí Bitcoin sin Lightning. Pero lo poco que conozco me sirve para darme cuenta que es probable que en algún momento, antes se Lightning, surgieran o se hicieran sugerencias, soluciones para arreglar la escalabilidad. Pero ya eso está resuelto. Así que lo que queda es el temor a la volatilidad como causa supuesta de la no adopción.
Ahora doy mi punto de vista. Muy humilde.
Vamos a El Salvador. Bitcoin como sea se puede usar y tiene total apoyo. Tienen Blink, que usa StableSat, la misma shitcoin que USDT. La gente puede que gane más o menos. AÚN TENIENDO APOYO GUBERNAMENTAL Y UNA BILLETERA CON MONEDA ESTABLE, LA ADOPCIÓN ES POOOOOOBREEEEEEE y no me digan que si la educación.
Entonces, es realmente una necesidad de hacer ese invento? EN MI MODESTA OPINIÓN HAY ALGO DETRÁS DE ESA COCHAMBRE.
Además, exceptuando Speedwallet, que es una billetera custodia de fácil uso, las demás que están proponiendo son más difícil de manejar que hasta Blixt y Zeus, que en realidad son unas delicias.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @sime 31 Jan
My quick take, I see it as a necessary evil for wider Bitcoin adoption. Rather have plebs pay fees in satoshis rather than ETH etc.
If a person is afraid of Bitcoin's volatility, then they should look for their personal solution or continue using fiat, which is also volatile but devaluing.
The world is big. Some parts of Africa, people depend on stablecoins because they cannot open a bank account.
It interesting the permissionless nature of cryptocurrencies are literally helping people survive (aka self custody/BYOB). But we all know here we'd prefer they not to depend on stablecoins.
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"Necessary evil" means you accept evil. Best to reject.
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