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I think it's Mao, by a fairly comfortable margin over Stalin.
The scope of their devastation is incomprehensible. Mao killed more people and impoverished them more greatly, though.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that a functioning society was left behind. By the end of Mao's reign China was reduced to the poorest place on the planet, after millennia of being one of the most prosperous societies.
i would put Mao above Stalin also, he also gets a notable mention for ridiculous nonsense like the sparrow killing.
any idea how his legacy is being taught in China now? Stalin is getting a bit of a revival in Russia now and the Memorial (in charge of commemorating victims of Soviet repression ) was officially dissolved in 2022 by the Russian Supreme Court.
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I don't know in great detail, but it seems like he's a complicated figure for them.
There are certain aspects they don't talk about, and he's still revered for driving the western powers out of China, but he's also recognized as someone who basically destroyed the country.
I think they try to talk about Mao in a mostly positive light, but then also talk about how great the post-Mao reforms were.
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too bad we don't have any Chinese stackers to weigh in
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Maybe @gnilma has some insights.
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482 sats \ 2 replies \ @gnilma 31 Jan
Thanks for tagging me. I'm not familiar with Stalin, but as a Chinese immigrant born in China and received elementary public education for 2.5 years, I can definitely share some personal experience and insight.
Let's start by saying that Mao is a mother fucker. I don't know how many millions he killed with the Great Leap Forward, but my dad still talks about the days of famine when he was young. We are from the south, Guangzhou. During those days, my grandfather would weigh the little rice he cooked each night so that everyone in the family has a portion to eat. Basically living on rations. They also mix yam into the rice because yam is easier to grow / cheaper. My dad still do not eat any yam at all to this day, because he said he ate too much of it back then. It is a surprise none of my uncles died during those dark days. My grandfather is a farmer, so I don't know if he stole some crops that he grew to keep the family alive. Those were not very good days in China.
Then just when people thought thing were getting better, the Cultural Revolution hit. I think the Cultural Revolution was just as bad, if not worse than the Great Leap Forward, because it turned people against each other. It promoted distrust, snitching, selfishness, and brought out the dark side of the whole population. I personally believe the Cultural Revolution was Mao's power move to eliminate possible threats in the CCP that can threaten his power and cement himself as supreme ruler. But in doing so, he not only killed many intellectuals and scientists in the country, but he also led the young generation down a foolish dark path of hubris and ignorance. My dad often says, the Cultural Revolution not only prevented China from advancing for 10 year, but it also pushed us back another 10 years. By the time the 10 years of revolution was over, we were not only 10 years behind, but actually 20 years.
I'm terms of how the country views Mao, I've been living in Canada since 1993, so I'm not too sure how he is being viewed these days within the country. But one thing is for certain, Mao is an integral part of the legacy of the party, so he is always protected and praised, at least to the public. To turn on Mao is turning on the party, and that cannot happen because the party is above all. There was also definitely propaganda in the elementary school text books in Chinese class to teach you to love Mao and to love the partty but that was from the early 90's as I immigrated to Canada in 93. I would assume the propaganda is still in the text books, although I cannot verify that.
But yea, privately, many Chinese (especially the ones that lived through Mao's reign) know and agree that Mao is a mother fucker, we just don't say it out loud.
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That's very similar to what I've heard from my Chinese friends. It seems like younger Chinese people (at least the types who go to grad school in America) are pretty aware of how horrific Mao was. They might be a little circumspect in how they discuss it (at least with an American), but it's clear that he's basically regarded as a maniac and that Deng Xiao Ping saved the country.
Oh, and we know the post Mao reforms are all Deng Xiao Ping, who was brilliant and pulled China out from a shit storm. I still think he made the wrong call during 89, but I think his overall contribution to China was much more good than bad.
Which is also why I'm sad to see Xi trying so hard to fuck up the years of progress made by past greats. Anyways, sorry I'm going off topic. I'm going to stop my rambling and get back to work.
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very interesting perspective, back in the day i dated a Chinese girl and man i wish i could have asked these things. sadly i was 17 and didn't have a clue lol
the real question is what is the teaching under Xi looking like.
apparently, the youth in the UK are fantasizing over a dictator and 'strong leadership' these days. no help for us