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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheBTCManual 31 Oct 2022
I always tell people Running your own node really immerses you in the bitcoin experience, if you really want to know whats going down under the hood you have to run a node and when they see the things it can do, it does start to click for some, as nodes become more powerful and new protocols emerge it's only going to become more obvious
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6 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatRat 31 Oct 2022
Agree 100%. As a non-coder if you can manage to setup a node and interact with the network it’s a great learning experience. You will understand more about Bitcoin than at least 95% of the people in the Bitcoin space. It’ll make it easier to defend Bitcoin against shitcoiners too. You will have “proof of work” knowledge to empower you.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022
Well put, that's precisely my experience as well.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @softglitter2d 31 Oct 2022
I like the post very much :D
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022
Thank you!
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1 sat \ 14 replies \ @BITC0IN 31 Oct 2022
Though I appreciate the spirit of this article. it's technically recommending options that are not Full nodes. But operating systems that can run unverified full nodes.
These are more dangerous to use than people think, and it's ultimately better and safer to run a verified (ie check the signatures/hashes of the downloaded software: ) bitcoin core node, a btcd node, a bitcoin knotts node, than these operating systems moonlighting as nodes.
they are not Bitcoin nodes.
they are operating systems
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2 sats \ 13 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022
Thanks for sharing your thoughts @BITC0IN 👍
While I agree that the security model is tighter running, let's say, Bitcoin Core, I'd argue that we should be careful to not make perfect the enemy of the good and gatekeep less technically experienced people. There will always exist trade-offs in complexity vs. security, in the same way that it does for various forms of custody. It wouldn't make sense to suggest multi-sig hardware wallets to new Bitcoiners even though it is, no doubt, technically more secure.
Running and maintaining a bare-metal node with Bitcoin Core is harder and out of reach for a lot of people. I do think it's a net positive for the Bitcoin network and the individuals involved to experiment and get involved with something more accessible, such as Umbrel, RaspiBlitz, myNode, RoninDojo. These projects are also open-source and the code can be inspected—and is so by many people.
But I'm curious to learn more about the risks you see associated with the aforementioned projects. Have you written something more in-depth where you expound on the risks? Please, share if so, I would love to understand it better.
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1 sat \ 12 replies \ @BITC0IN 31 Oct 2022
Its not harder. its much easier.
installing and running Bitcoin core on your regular desktop is miles easier than installing an operating system on new hardware, who's primary purpose is for lightning use.
I want to also ask if you've installed/run bitcoin core before?
I really should do a write up on this topic now though, it's long over due. I have a lot of spinning plates though. to be continued.
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11 sats \ 9 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022
Yes, I've experimented a fair bit with Core. I wouldn't agree it's easier. For example, Umbrel requires flashing a file on an SD card and plugging it in. And when it's set up, you have access to an easy-to-use UI (yes, I know Core has a UI available, but it's not as easy to use). RoninDojo and The Bitcoin Machine are available fully set up straight out of the box if that's desired. Sure, that's not ideal from a security standpoint, but still fine for exploration, in my opinion.
Core requires a level of familiarity with the command line—which I personally have as a programmer—but I know a lot of people don't. Installing dependencies, building from source, etc, is not something everyone knows how to do.
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2 sats \ 0 replies \ @Atreus 31 Oct 2022
It's easy for us to lose perspective of what's "easy" or not. On these topics we become like Ron Swanson when he was disappointed no one knew how to fill in that hole in the street.
I mean, d'uh. What could be simpler.
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1 sat \ 7 replies \ @BITC0IN 31 Oct 2022
and what is the primary purpose of that UI? to be a Bitcoin node or a lightning node?
This is another challenge. Equivocating lightning nodes and Bitcoin nodes. They're two different and separate things.
Though it appears that the supporters of these operating systems like to switch or mix the two together when it serves them.
I mean if you have money to burn on redundant hardware, sure. You can certainly use their unverified software. Why anyone would do so seriously though is beyond me.
no it doesn't. it has a gui.
You need zero command line familiarity to install and run Bitcoin core. this is extremely concerning to see this level of misinformation from someone so technical.
You don't need to install dependencies unless you are using a fresh out of the box linux OS.
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2 sats \ 6 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022
Sorry, I missed that it's available as an executable. A mistake on my side.
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121 sats \ 5 replies \ @BITC0IN 31 Oct 2022
To be clear. here is the subtext of what you are advocating for when recommending these operating systems as a Bitcoin full node solutions. And please know, this is going to be abrasive, but is not aimed at you, but the general attitude with this topic by the Bitcoin community at large. You may not knowingly be doing this, but here are the implications:
"Hey everyone! People should;
Forget about verifying the binaries/signatures of the software they are running to store their money.
Use open source software that is impossible to audit since it's an entire fucking operating system of code.
Use their Bitcoin full node with a bunch of other apps that haven't been verified either!
Download updates from the operating system owner without verifying the hashes of the software, don't worry, just trust them!
The more people who get onboard these operating systems the better for the Bitcoin network, right guys! its not like a massive botnet of centralization is being built under our very noses that could be flipped with a switch by the operating system owners one day!
Just buy redundant hardware you don't need! never mind the fact that raspberry pi's can barely survive a year as a lightning node!
oops, did I say lightning node! yes of course, it's also a lightning node when I need it to be! but it's also a full Bitcoin node!
Never mind It's technically an operating system! just forget about that!
Just forget about what a Bitcoin full node is at a fundamental level:"
The software.
Not the hardware. Not the operating system.
The Software, that you the end user, should be verifying.
Bitcoin core, btcd and bitcoin knotts are Bitcoin Full Node software implementations.
Rasberry pi's, servers, computers and laptops are hardware.
Umbrel, mynode, raspiblitz etc are operating systems. Not Full nodes.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Taranis 31 Oct 2022
just to be clear. those are software packages for operating systems. the operating system is the underlying kernel which those application bundles run atop.
i hear you though... complex as it needs to be, simple as it can be.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Taranis 31 Oct 2022
highly recommend https://raspibolt.org guide. swap the 'arm' releases for linux packages on a debian-based os if you don't have a spare pi.
or
@k3tan guides over at ministry of nodes:
https://www.ministryofnodes.com.au/ubuntu-node-box-guide-2022
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taranis 1 Nov 2022
adding 402 payment required to this list
https://bitcointv.com/c/402paymentrequired/videos
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