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11 sats \ 9 replies \ @benjamin OP 31 Oct 2022 \ parent \ on: The Rationale for Running a Full Node bitcoin
Yes, I've experimented a fair bit with Core. I wouldn't agree it's easier. For example, Umbrel requires flashing a file on an SD card and plugging it in. And when it's set up, you have access to an easy-to-use UI (yes, I know Core has a UI available, but it's not as easy to use). RoninDojo and The Bitcoin Machine are available fully set up straight out of the box if that's desired. Sure, that's not ideal from a security standpoint, but still fine for exploration, in my opinion.
Core requires a level of familiarity with the command line—which I personally have as a programmer—but I know a lot of people don't. Installing dependencies, building from source, etc, is not something everyone knows how to do.
It's easy for us to lose perspective of what's "easy" or not. On these topics we become like Ron Swanson when he was disappointed no one knew how to fill in that hole in the street.
"All you do is dig the loose gravel out of the hole. Then you just use a jackhammer to remove the larger pieces, then spray down the hole to settle the dust and fill it with cold patch asphalt!"
I mean, d'uh. What could be simpler.
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Yes, I've experimented a fair bit with Core. I wouldn't agree it's easier. For example, Umbrel requires flashing a file on an SD card and plugging it in. And when it's set up, you have access to an easy-to-use UI (yes, I know Core has a UI available, but it's not as good).
and what is the primary purpose of that UI? to be a Bitcoin node or a lightning node?
This is another challenge. Equivocating lightning nodes and Bitcoin nodes. They're two different and separate things.
Though it appears that the supporters of these operating systems like to switch or mix the two together when it serves them.
RoninDojo and The Bitcoin Machine are available fully set up straight out of the box if that's desired. Sure, that's not ideal from a security standpoint, but still fine for exploration, in my opinion.
I mean if you have money to burn on redundant hardware, sure. You can certainly use their unverified software. Why anyone would do so seriously though is beyond me.
Core requires a level of familiarity with the command line—which I personally have as a programmer—but I know a lot of people don't.
no it doesn't. it has a gui.
Installing dependencies, building from source, etc, is not something everyone knows how to do.
You need zero command line familiarity to install and run Bitcoin core. this is extremely concerning to see this level of misinformation from someone so technical.
You don't need to install dependencies unless you are using a fresh out of the box linux OS.
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Sorry, I missed that it's available as an executable. A mistake on my side.
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To be clear. here is the subtext of what you are advocating for when recommending these operating systems as a Bitcoin full node solutions. And please know, this is going to be abrasive, but is not aimed at you, but the general attitude with this topic by the Bitcoin community at large. You may not knowingly be doing this, but here are the implications:
"Hey everyone! People should;
Forget about verifying the binaries/signatures of the software they are running to store their money.
Use open source software that is impossible to audit since it's an entire fucking operating system of code.
Use their Bitcoin full node with a bunch of other apps that haven't been verified either!
Download updates from the operating system owner without verifying the hashes of the software, don't worry, just trust them!
The more people who get onboard these operating systems the better for the Bitcoin network, right guys! its not like a massive botnet of centralization is being built under our very noses that could be flipped with a switch by the operating system owners one day!
Just buy redundant hardware you don't need! never mind the fact that raspberry pi's can barely survive a year as a lightning node!
oops, did I say lightning node! yes of course, it's also a lightning node when I need it to be! but it's also a full Bitcoin node!
Never mind It's technically an operating system! just forget about that!
Just forget about what a Bitcoin full node is at a fundamental level:"
The software.
Not the hardware. Not the operating system.
The Software, that you the end user, should be verifying.
Bitcoin core, btcd and bitcoin knotts are Bitcoin Full Node software implementations.
Rasberry pi's, servers, computers and laptops are hardware.
Umbrel, mynode, raspiblitz etc are operating systems. Not Full nodes.
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just to be clear. those are software packages for operating systems. the operating system is the underlying kernel which those application bundles run atop.
i hear you though... complex as it needs to be, simple as it can be.
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I mean, functionally, no they aren't just software packages. Software packages are not the only thing being installed on these rasberry pi's and other devices.
The default is for end users to flash an entire OS + software package to an SD card or hard drive. both these are packaged together as a .iso by these middle men.
I have not found instructions anywhere for first installing a OS independent of these apparent "just software packages", and then installing the packages. I don't think it's even an option?
If you are aware of such an example I am all ears. But it's not the default, that is for sure.
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i put more thought into this afterwards and i agree. you're correct. have some sats.
each of the particular packages above include the underlying operating system along with the applications.
raspibolt, ministry of nodes, and 402 payment required's guides are the only ones that come to mind which help the end-user through the process of building their own node post-OS install.
if i recall correctly, all three verify signatures and checksums throughout the process.
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right,, but do any of those tutorials use the software packages from these third part middle men?
My belief is that they are using/downloading/installing the software(s) directly from the source.
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nope. those guides carry the user through obtaining packages from the source (eg., github), importing and verifying dev keys, and verifying sha256 checksums.