Bitcoiners have Somehow, Unfortunately, Lost the Plot \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Let's use this hypothetical (#1):

If 'ending the woke' and 'draining the swamp' and 'ending the Fed' + IRS + CIA + FBI etc etc...

Would all be possible, but do-able only through a totalitarian dictatorship...

Would it all be worth it?

Let's also pose this hypothetical (#2):

Let's pretend that we 'ended the IRS' tomorrow as some Bitcoiners would suggest that we do.

Where, exactly would the government get its revenue?

Because it wouldn't be through tariffs. The math doesn't work. https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/05/could-trumps-tariffs-replace-the-income-tax-what-policy-experts-say.html

Oh, oh OK then ... we'll defund the government. Just say 'hey we're not paying bond-holders we have no revenue coming in and... we're not paying.'

Plus "we're not paying for services either" because we (the Government) have no money.

So either the government "prints all the money" causing hyperinflation (like in Weimar, Germany) or Government for all practical purposes ceases to exist...

interest rates spike through the roof overnight.
The country if not the whole world goes into recession.
And Some (if not many of you) lose your jobs overnight (that is if you're still working).

And real defunding, the kind that SOME Bitcoiners want to see, where the US government ceases to exist because

it is evil and terrible and needs to be destroyed
spreads Woke propaganda and never does anything good
and causes all the wars and atrocities through its existence...

Would result in no military, no police, no air traffic controllers, no FDA, no Dept of Energy (which has nukes) no 'Border Control' or ICE, no Social Security no Medicare no NASA and that would be...

GREAT!

Some Bitcoiners believe . Because we ("they"?) can grow their/"our" own food and live off the land. Just like they did in the 19th century.

And use Bitcoin and the internet and satellites and Graphene OS and semiconductors 'sovereignly' just like everyone is ready and prepared to do (because the world hasn't changed in 200 years.)

And if you don't live on a Farm (and "live off the land") then you need groceries/vegetables/daily goods so just use Bitcoin when the dollar collapses at your local supply store! And we all know how ready rural areas, with lots of farmland are, to use Bitcoin the Initial Block Downloads (IBDs) in Nowheresville, Ohio are going to be EEEPIC!!!!

You'll use Bitcoin at the Grocery Store (even though there's no FDA or Dept of Agriculture)
Bitcoin at the gas station (unless you of course drill for your own petrol and refine it in your backyard... or just ride horses.)
and use Bitcoin to pay for electronics and computers and hard drive discs to 'run your own node' (which, eventually needs repairs, maintenance, and more storage.)

Some of you solder or repair your own electronics or repair HDDs in your basement... BUT if you don't (like most people) then you'll EVENTUALLY need to buy or replace parts to keep your node up and running.

And the Nodes at the grocery store, the auto-parts store, the gas station, the electronics company... they'll need to be replaced too or need storage upgrades due to the growing Bitcoin blockchain.

But don't worry, all these businesses will be on a Bitcoin standard just like they are today!!!

Amidst a global economic recession and spike in interest rates.
With a huge disruption of supply chains (especially those involving electronics.)
Plus hyperinflation which will make Dollars lose value rapidly.

So we're good let's distribute The Bitcoin Standard (because nothing has changed in 7 years since it was published?) and I'm sure people will be cracking it open amidst an economic collapse of the Dollar and the effective dissolution of the US Government when it ultra-hard-defaults.

Now that we've discussed the Anarchist Hypothetical where everybody just "adopts Bitcoin" (#2)... and the Hypothetical where the government dissolves (including the IRS/FED/CIA/FBI/SEC BUT requires a dictatorship to make it happen... ) (#1)

Entertain the idea that something else is going on.

I believe we are watching the reliving of the Bolshevik Revolution, the Russian Revolution, in modern times in the United States. There are, on one hand, the counter-revolutionaries and then the revolutionaries.

On one side are the 'traditionalists' and 'institution-ists', the 'empire-supporters' who favor stability, however flawed, the "White Russians" the counter-revolutionaries the traditional monarchy.
And on the other side the Anarchists, who want to 'burn it all down' (See Above) while - of course - supporting their 'dear leader' the "Woke-Ender." The Social Revolutionaries, Anarchists, and Bolsheviks called him Lenin, the modern "Social Revolutionaries" (who fight amongst themselves) call him... well you know he's in the news every day.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution)

By March, Russia had two rival governments. The Provisional Government held state power in military and international affairs, whereas the network of Soviets held more power concerning domestic affairs. Critically, the Soviets held the allegiance of the working class, as well as the growing urban middle class. During this chaotic period, there were frequent mutinies, protests and strikes. Many socialist and other leftist political organizations were competing for influence within the Provisional Government and the Soviets. Notable factions included the Mensheviks, Social Revolutionaries, Anarchists, as well as the Bolsheviks, a far-left party led by Vladimir Lenin.
If achieving a 'more efficient' Gov can only be achieved through a dictatorship, where "one man" alone can fix all the problems... is the Dictatorship worth it? What about if it's only "temporary?"
And if people are so dissatisfied, so desperate in the United States, with illegal immigration, Wokeness, and high prices out of control...

Is Anarchy POSSIBLY the Answer? Shortly followed by everyone Adopting Bitcoin?

Some Bitcoiners have fallen into this trap of supporting One Side of this "American Civil War", just like the Russians had, taking sides with outrageous consequences and absurdities:

Anarchists, Ultra-Billionaires, Trade-Protectionists, and National Populists, Largely United by their Social Information Platform Twitter (now X) Owned and Operated by Elon Musk (who is the Head of the "Department of Government Efficiency")

AND

Some Bitcoiners... who want to "Destroy the Government", De-fund it, in order to "Adopt Bitcoin" through Techno-Anarchy...

Think that they're "On the Same Team".

Because these people, the Social-Media-Inauguration-Billionaires who are more powerful than ever before want to destroy and dis-empower the very same government that they now control so that "you can use Bitcoin" freely and accelerate the transition to a "Bitcoin Standard".

Really?

When did the "Bitcoin Party", the Anarchists, the "Social Revolutionaries" the "Red-Pillers" side with the Billionaires to support the new "Lenin", the Indispensable Man?

Because when Mr. Trump and Elon "win" and achieve all their "Political Objectives" the Billionaires will Adopt Bitcoin, Give up their Political Power and Digital Monopolies, and we will all be Free-er than before...

To Quote Marx:

"Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workers of the world, unite!" Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels: The Communist Manifesto

Replace the word "Communist" with "Bitcoin" and what could possibly go wrong? History never repeats exactly... but it does Rhyme. And in the meantime while you fight for "freedom" on Twitter... please buy the memecoins (Doge & TrumpCoin) OK?

Doesn't anyone see how fucking ridiculous this sounds?

We have gone from This:

To This:

And it is all so sad and predictable.

159 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 4h

'hey we're not paying bond-holders we have no revenue coming in and... we're not paying.'

The will never be a default. Bond holders will get freshly printed dollars.

This is already whats been happening for last 60+ years....old debt is just rolled into newer / bigger debt. There has never been any "debt paid off".

Its not my fault if lenders didn't realize this was what was happening (hint: they all know this is how the game has been working, none of this is a surprise).

So in other words the US would become like it was at its founding? A founding that then permitted enough wealth to be rapidly built that could then fund all the grift you mentioned.

The notion that "no one will sell oil or beef because the Dept of Energy and FDA doesn't exist".... how did we ever manage before 1940?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 2h

We can definitely eliminate USAID, a money laundering vehicle

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 4h

The US cannot just 'print up dollars' without some revenue source. Income taxes are a huge % of federal revenues and if you abolish them... Well OK. But either government has to shrink massively (which includes the DoD, Medicare and Social Security which people don't want) OR the deficit has to increase massively ballooning interest rates probably sending the economy into recession. Just 'print the dollars up' and the US turns into Argentina

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @freetx 3h

Just 'print the dollars up' and the US turns into Argentina

Again, we have already been doing this for 60+ years. All exponential curves eventually steer towards infinite increases....and this is just where we currently are in that curve.

I'm suggesting a continuation of the same just at a slightly enhanced rate. In fact, this is the "mainstream solution".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsMate 26m

I appreciate this post. I want more to call out the hard truths just like this!

Unfortunately, since January 2024, I have noticed a significant leaning from Bitcoiners to a more statist view. Many of them are only about the number go up, mNAV with MSTR getting nation states to buy.

I think the world that Saylor and Fink live in with Bitcoin is extremely different than the El Zonte lightning network circular economies we have. I see two very distinct camps forming in Bitcoin now:

NGU/Digital Gold/HODL to the end
Digital Freedom, Lightning network Currency to transact, and unit of account

I really don't hear about group one talk about 2 as much, and I do hear group 2 sense a lot of bitcoiners are cozying up to #1.

Sorry for oversimplifying or summarizing it, but ever since the ETFs have come out, I have noticed people are overly fixated on government simping, BlackRock simping and saylor simping... my two sats...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pbl4eagain 43m

this is excellent

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 3h

To your point on the farmer, what kind of money would they accept then?

Nothing is ever so black and white. In a situation that you described the producers would need to learn quickly what kind of money they need to be using. If it's not bitcoin, what is it?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 4h

It is probably only a small minority of Bitcoiners who have adopted these anti government extremist Libertarian views.

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 4h

That is not the impression Sir reading Twitter. There are some big 'Bitcoin influencers' who say these exact things. Abolish the CIA, FBI, IRS, judicial system etc etc.

And because they are influencers these things get repeated over and over... these things are said here on Stacker News too and people start to believe them without thinking.

M Kratter's videos promote these same 'fringe' extremist things when it used to be about Bitcoin

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 3h

Agree there are some very loud proponents of this absurd Libertarian nonsense.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 4h

A very entertaining critique of anarchism. But not all bitcoiners are anarchists, and even if you're correct (Which you are), that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be optimal to cut the government at the margins

27 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 4h

Matthew Kratter is a huge Bitcoiner on Youtube and, in my humble opinion, has gone full red-pill pro-twitter pro-trump burn down the government-anarchy.

The government needs reform, no-one disagrees with that. But twitter is a for-profit company and they own (like all social media) all the content on their site and is 100% for-profit.

Furthermore, the billionaires behind Mr Trump that day constitute the Big-Tech Monopolies which is not what Bitcoin stands for. How Bitcoiners just hand-wave this away while supporting the concentration of information... is not healthy.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 1h

Never heard of him. Sounds like just the same old clickbait recipe of "guessing what people wanna hear". Just don't watch the vid - encourages one more soul to simply work for their moneys (and maybe shed some costs like the lambo.)