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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 8h \ parent \ on: Are Most Bitcoiners Statists? bitcoin

What I hate about this framing is the idea that the state is the faceless shapeless entity that we have no control over and you must bend to its will or perish. But in reality the state is nothing but people.

This is true. But also the state is an idea. An ideal that people believe in and that is the real threat. That outlives people. Think of this as a social protocol that has its own set of incentives. Some of us do not believe in the state as an ideal. We believe it is evil. It is a powerful entity given power by belief. Given power by people sacrificing their life force to it.

Plus I don’t take any libertarians who enjoy life in a stable government seriously . If such person lived if a failed state where it was a daily struggle just to get food and water 99% of them would beg for the state to save them from their misery. Plus anyone who truly wants to be free no government is stoping them from leaving their country and finding self sovereignty on some undeveloped land and live your ideals out there. But don’t be surprised as soon as another nation can take advantage of you they will.

With respect, you are describing many libertarians and also pretty much all people. People on the left. People on the right. I stopped calling myself a libertarian a long time ago as well but it wasn't due to the ideas as much as the people. Its such a massive tent of ideas and I do not prescribe to many of them. I'm not a libertine. I believe in law. I believe governance has value.

All that said, you are creating a straw man here. You seem to be assuming that people do not understand that a little poison may not kill you but more will indeed kill you. You also seem to be confusing chaos with freedom. I often say the USA and most of the prosperous nations are prosperous due to free markets. Would you agree? Prosperity is not coming from the state. Governance is required. The state fill many roles that are required for modern society. Very few libertarians reject the idea of governance. They simply suggest that governance should be a free market, not a monopoly decided by violence.

An interesting observation is those communist nations that received more freedom. Look at how much better their lives have become. Just as more centralized intervention leads to less prosperity more prosperity come from more freedom.

I think you are missing the point of this post though. As I said, statism is simply a category. A frame if you will. When I think about the goal, I think about finding ways to avoid violence. Not excuse it. There are many aspects of our current world that I love, many that are terrible. We need different perspectives. I'm not the type to take my ball and go home. I value living in a society. I just don't believe we are setting our goals high enough.