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87 sats \ 7 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 16 Feb \ on: Bitcoin Jungle needs buyer adoption, not merchant adoption bitcoin
Today I went to a small bakery in a small town here in New Zealand- it accepts Bitcoin.
Tutaki bakery in Murchison.
www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinNewZealand/comments/1iqmjm8/next_time_you_are_in_murchison/
There are LOT of tourists who travel through this town and the bakery has excellent food and excellent value and is very popular from what I could see with both tourists and locals.
But when I ask the owner how many people paid with Bitcoin he told me since offering Bitcoin payment (LN) two years I am only the third customer to pay with Bitcoin!
This is our problem- the few businesses who offer Bitcoin payment do not get the support they need to make it worth offering!
I have become a Bitcoin tourist- now whenever i travel I choose anywhere that accepts bitcoin before other alternatives- I have found every time the Bitcoin accepting businesses are very good value.
Why are we not supporting them? Because Bitcoin has been slyly shifted from a P2P payments protocol into a speculative commodity narrative.
FUCK THIS!
We need to get back to using our sats to pay for the things we want.
Bitcoin was built to be a P2P payments protocol -we need to use it or lose it.
Support Bitcoin accepting businesses!
Why are we not supporting them?
alternatively, why arent they supporting us!? probably because they're here for the money, not the comrades.
if the business wants my bitcoin more than my fiat, they should offer a (steep) discount because sats are hard to come by in the real world. fiat is everywhere.
p2p network is great and all of us want it. i offer a discount when I settle trades in coin because I understand the value of the coin.
If you don't understand the value, that may explain why you're spending sats on groceries during a bull run.
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How much of a premium do you pay on Bitcoin when you buy it with fiat?
I pay world market price and zero fees. If you are paying more its because you don't understand how useful and central P2P is to Bitcoin.
Businesses who offer payment in Bitcoin face numerous risks and costs for doing so including hostility from ignorant customers and suppliers especially threats of debanking from fiat banks, the tax/reporting implications and its price volatility with fiat.
That's a lot for any business to take on (for a still tiny market segment) and then you demand a steep discount on top of all that.
You do not understand Bitcoin and the obstacles to adoption.
If Bitcoin continues to be seen as and used as a speculative commodity it loses its functionality as an alternative to fiat monopoly money. This is what the fiat monopolists want and this is what they are achieving and your rhetoric is proof they have captured you already with their narrative of Bitcoin as a speculative commodity as opposed to a P2P payments protocol.
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How much of a premium do you pay on Bitcoin when you buy it with fiat?
Why should I discount my bitcoin by spending it on baked goods, or groceries?
I'll occasionally buy a portion of a cow with bitcoin. It support the ranchers who I want on my team. I want farmers and craftsmen and geniuses on my team.
If a middleman grocer wants to be on my team, that's great... he can go pay a premium on the exchange, or he can pay me a premium. It's my money, I get to decide how I spend it. And I don't spend it on things I can get with fiat, unless it's deeply important to do so or I can get a discount (which proves the recipient of my sats understands what they're getting, see also: Alby, Mullvad, etc...).
risks and costs
Oh yeah... you mean that whole "self sovereign" condition of owning bitcoin. Yeah, the grocer can play on the same field as me.
you do not understand Bitcoin and the obstacles to adoption
Is this "adoption" in the room with us right now? the only thing I see in the room is 24 US states and a handful of nations talking about strategic bitcoin reserves and giant ETFs talking about buying billions and billions and billions of USD worth of bitcoin.
Bitcoiners have spent the last 16 years telling everybody who would listen that bitcoin could save them. The time for early adopters has passed. Everybody else will have to get their bitcoin at the price they deserve. If you're still out there shilling it, cool... good for you... I hope you have success, because that tide will lift all our boats.
But until businesses are offering a discount to encourage me to separate myself from my money, they can continue to pay 3% to a card processor and I'll get 3-5% back in points because I'm principled and I don't want to waste my time or money on somebody who's gonna sell my sats back to a bank.
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You don't understand P2P or you would be able to obtain Bitcoin at market price with no need to use rentseeking KYCing state surveillance CEXes.
The more you accept and follow the legacy fiat powers imposed narrative of Bitcoin being primarily a KYCed speculative commodity, not primarily a P2P payments protocol, the more you miss the whole point of Bitcoin.
Have you ever read The White paper? Seems not.
Your assertion that retailers must offer you a discount for Bitcoin payment is absurd.
You ignore the multiple obstacles that retailers face in accepting Bitcoin and seem to only think of your own narrow self interest- in doing so you miss the point of Bitcoin and are blind to its true value.
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seem to only think of your own narrow self interest
I suspect that you vastly underestimate the breadth of my self-interest, Solomon.
Are you familiar with "How to make a mint" ?
It's not really much concern to me whether Satoshi intended to make a peer-to-peer cash on a chain without the space for 8 billion users to get a UTXO, or if it was cover to instead build a system that could sneakily replace the USD on the world stage without any negotiation step for the bickering nations of the world to somehow eek out an advantage over the US.
At this point, the tide is going in a direction of hoarding the better money. I'm not going to swim against that tide.
I don't have enough sats to waste them at businesses that don't want them enough to demonstrate that they understand the value of what I have.
You should feel free to spend all your sats on groceries if that's what you want to do, please don't let me stop you.
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You don't understand the value of Bitcoin.
You are hoarding a commodity which you misunderstand and that you believe is sure to increase in value when Bitcoins long term value is seriously degraded by people perceiving it and using purely or primarily as a speculative commodity.
Use as a speculative commodity plays precisely into the hands of those who seek to capture and control the protocol to preserve their fiat payments hegemony.
You don't understand how to use P2P an avoid rentseeking CEX KYC state surveillance..
You don't need to have lot of Bitcoin to use it where it is accepted- you just need to understand how to use P2P to acquire Bitcoin at the current world price- clearly you don't understand that basic application of P2P.
Not interested in your links to whatever - if you cannot make a convincing reasoned case here in this thread sequentially and in full view, then accept defeat in the contest of ideas...don't try to waste my time and that of others following the debate with extraneous links to god know what.
If there were no exchanges, then you may have some point. Since you can exchange any amount of fiat for bitcoin in seconds/minutes (and non-KYC in minutes/hours) the whole "I'm not spending bitcoin because I only want to spend fiat and hoard bitcoin" is quite meaningless.
Just exchange fiat for whatever is your target to have in bitcoin and that's it. Spending or not spending bitcoin doesn't have any meaningful effect on how much bitcoin you have if you use exchange. You can do "spend and replace", which is essentially a mind trick, but it may work as a bridge for some people.