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805 sats \ 19 comments \ @fiatbad 19 Feb bitcoin

I've been using Fold for years. Love them. But they do incentivize me to keep some fiat in a traditional bank (Sutton). This is a negative.

Each year, their rewards have massively dropped. Back in 2023, I was paying my mortgage and getting 200k Sats back in rewards. Today, I get about 5,000 Sats. Much of this discrepancy comes from the price of Bitcoin being 5x higher..... but the difference in rewards is like, 40x!! So the vast majority is from them lowering the reward percentages. And it's not just bill-pay rewards that have suffered. Their daily spin wheel is a fraction of what it used to be, from the user's perspective.

I can't fault them for this. They are trying to go public, they need to show profits and healthy margins. They were giving away too much Bitcoin a few years ago, and they probably realized their mistake. Still, from a user's perspective, the rewards are a fraction of what it used to be, even after accounting for Bitcoin's rise.

I had left Fold for a while, and returned when they started offering bill-pay rewards again recently. But today, I realized something. I think I'd be better off using Strike's bill pay, even without the bill-pay rewards, simply due to the fact that I don't ever have to hold fiat.

Imagine this scenario:

If I get paid on the 15th of the month, I'm holding fiat for 2 weeks until I pay my mortgage on the 1st of the following month. I'll receive roughly 5k Sats with Fold's bill-pay, as long as I've spent enough on daily purchases the following month to equal my mortgage amount (ask me about how Fold bill-pay works later if you're curious). Which means, I'm spending more money than I probably would have, in order to reach that threshold. Then I only get 5k Sats as a reward.

OR I could use Strike. Deposit my entire paycheck directly to Bitcoin, and hold Bitcoin instead, from the 15th to the 1st of the following month. On average, by holding Bitcoin instead, I'm usually making way more than 5k Sats. I also don't have the pressure of spending in order to read my mortgage amount the month before. And I never have to touch fiat.

You're probably saying to yourself, "Yea, but doesn't Fold offer the same service?".

I don't know, I've only heard Jack Mallers talking on podcasts. I used Strike a while ago to purchase Bitcoin, but I've never used its "bill-pay" features. It sounds like I can have my fiat converted instantly to Bitcoin on payday.... and then pay my mortgage on the 1st and let Strike handle the conversion AND the tax paper-trail for me. I know that Fold does the deposit-as-Bitcoin thing, and even the taxes thing. But I would have to hold fiat until it comes time to pay my bill and use the "push to card" feature to attempt to push the exact amount in order to pay my fiat-based mortgage.

In other words, with Fold I still have to manage fiat. Even if it's just a small amount. I have to estimate the amount of Sats that need sold to cover the mortgage. With Strike, I just pay the mortgage, and they handle the exact conversion amounts. Zero fiat accounting whatsoever. To me, it feels like I paid my mortgage with Bitcoin.

This convenience seems like it's worth leaving Fold for. I miss out on the 5k Sats..... I gain the ability to never touch fiat.

Question for the audience. Is this actually how Strike works? I don't know yet, because I haven't tried out this feature. But I want to make sure my assumptions are correct before making the switch.

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206 sats \ 4 replies \ @zapsammy 19 Feb

in my case, strike and fold are my only connections to fiat in case of an emergency, and are mostly empty, sitting at zero sats & zero dollars - for example, if there is ever an emergency, and i must use a card, then i can push LN -> Strike -> Fold -> make payment. otherwise, the preferred method is to pay for as many life needs as possible with sats directly, or have someone get me what i need for sats. this imposes more friction, but that's the point - to learn thru self-imposed friction, to constantly test my bitcoining abilities from the social layer to the cashu layer.

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

Absolutely baddass comment. You have virtue. Whoever you are, you always have a seat at my table.

I got teary-eyed at "this imposes more friction, but that's the point".....

Fuck you XMR bros..... fuck you Roger Ver (hope you get released though)..... fuck you Vitalik Butterin. Bitcoin is for the strong.

12 sats \ 2 replies \ @zapsammy 19 Feb

i get teary eyed too sometimes, thinking "omg, we made, bitcoin is here, freedom is here!" and yet more chaos is happening day to day.

so i sit down and try to learn more about law, mental defense, health defense, physical defense, keep on orange-pilling good candidates, teach new bitcoiners, pay attention to a multitude of conspiracy theories, etc.

there is so much work ahead, and so many scattered projects. gotta chip-chip away at it all

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

"omg, we made, bitcoin is here, freedom is here!" and yet more chaos is happening day to day."

Part of this may be due to the fact that Bitcoin is not threatening fiat enough. If Bitcoin is nothing more than a store of value, then it's played perfectly into the hands of the deep-state (creature from Jekyll island). The Core Devs have ptsd from ordinals and taproot. Time for them to grow some balls and get some shit done.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 19 Feb

lots to look forward to: mining decentralization and the soft-fork war! it's as much a technical as an intellectual and a spiritual battle.

on the normies side and bitcoiners side alike i decided to adopt the following strategy: study and educate harder while avoiding people who panic and fear (no one can help those, only themselves).

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 19 Feb

I really do not understand why so many bitcoiners (especially muricans) are cheering up for these companies as being "bitcoin" companies, when in fact are a trap fiat company! These are the new "paypal over LN" crap they try to push forward, keeping users into fiat trap.

If you really consider yourself a bitcoiner, you should not use these methods or at least as zapsammy said, only in extreme situation.

We cannot get rid of fiat if we continue using it. We will be forever fiat slaves. And people should understand that without sacrifice you cannot go forward. So please get the fuck out from your "comfortable" bubble of using fiat rails just because are working.

We are here in Bitcoinlandia to fuck fiat not to keep using it.

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 19 Feb

So, I’m venturing into this realm with Strike in terms of Bill Pay.

One thing to point out is that you might want to use direct deposit with Strike for a portion of your paycheck before fully committing. Reason being is that when you use Strike’s “Get Paid in Bitcoin” feature, you’re incurring a fee to convert your paycheck to Bitcoin. However, if you use their recurring buy feature to purchase Bitcoin you don’t incur a fee after the second week or so. That way you’re not racking up fees to convert all of your paycheck to Bitcoin. Also, keep in mind that you’ll incur fees when paying bills too.

Either way, holding Bitcoin and using it will always be the better choice.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Cje95 19 Feb

So I guess you were one of the trail blaers who used PayPal for your mortgage because they didnt otherwise allow it. Even then it was a flaw in PayPals system not Fold. It was more or less a hack that was quickly patched and Fold has struggled to break since.

I have to ask did you ever join the Discord? If so you would know how they made their money and it was via the gift card spread not the debit cards.

Based off of what you are saying you must not be a Fold+ person which cost $100 a year but pays back easily x10 fold. Not to mention paying attention to their X they offer countless times the last few month to get anywhere from 10 to 1000 spins. Even if the spins landed on the lowest of 5 with a 1000 thats 5k sats.

If you live in the US Strike is not the answer. Strike charges a .99% fee with BTC and Fold it is 0. Fold also pays for your withdrawal and from what I am seeing on Strike they do not make that clear. For auto withdrawals you the minimum is a psychotic 1,000,000 sats and Fold is 50k.

I am honestly confused on why anyone in the US would use Strike. It not only has fees but it has stupid high withdrawal thresholds.

While with Strike you might "feel" a way that doesnt mean it is true or the best for you. Throw in the Fold CC and 1.5 to 2% back on everything is a hell of a lot simpler than having to refill a debit card be it Fold or Strike.

9 sats \ 2 replies \ @j7hB75 19 Feb

If you live in the US Strike is not the answer. Strike charges a .99% fee with BTC and Fold it is 0.

Strike charges a fee but it reduces based on your usage. It doesn’t stay at 0.99%.

https://strike.me/faq/what-are-the-bitcoin-trading-fees-on-strike/

Fold also pays for your withdrawal and from what I am seeing on Strike they do not make that clear.

Strike does not charge an on-chain send fee for the Flexible delivery time.

https://strike.me/faq/what-fees-and-rates-apply-to-bitcoin-transactions/

For auto withdrawals you the minimum is a psychotic 1,000,000 sats and Fold is 50k.

This seems subjective. How is 1 million sats psychotic? I think it has to do with how they batch transactions on their end and what is efficient.

I am honestly confused on why anyone in the US would use Strike. It not only has fees but it has stupid high withdrawal thresholds.

I’m confused why you couldn’t be bothered to do some basic research on their website? They have fees because they’re a business. They need to make money somewhere to keep running. “Stupid high” withdrawal thresholds is subjective and simply not true. You can withdraw whenever you want if you elect not to do auto withdrawals.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 19 Feb

I saw the fee chart but lets be honest about the amount of money people are going to use on Strike to purchase BTC. Do you really see people purchasing over 2k over and over again? Thats the only way to get the fee under .9 and again Fold's is 0 you enter how much you want to buy they show you the price you purchase at and they dont charge a fee.

I guess(??) the transfer fees even out to 0 since Fold ya know doesnt charge period....

You think the average person is going to have 1 million sats or 0.01 BTC just chilling able to send? Thats thousands of dollars your average person does not have that it isnt subjective at all?

Given I used the numbers from their site idk how you could miss/ignore that I clearly did my research and the math still clearly favors Fold using your own numbers. Unless everyone in the US is a significant BTC holder and no one knew.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 19 Feb

I saw the fee chart but lets be honest about the amount of money people are going to use on Strike to purchase BTC. Do you really see people purchasing over 2k over and over again?

Depends. If you are depositing all or a large portion of your paycheck into Strike, then yes, you could be purchasing over $2K per month.

You think the average person is going to have 1 million sats or 0.01 BTC just chilling able to send? Thats thousands of dollars your average person does not have that it isnt subjective at all?

I don't know what average person means in this context. However, at the time of this comment, 0.01 BTC is equivalent to $962.69 USD. That does not equal "thousands of dollars".

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 Feb

Recently, Fold made it so that you can hold your entire balance and instantly convert to fiat for bill pay, so I don't think there's much difference between the two (except the rewards).

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

Another way of asking is.... can I use Fold without ever touching fiat whatsoever? I want to use it to pay fiat denominated bills, and other fiat purchases, but hold 100% of my balance in Bitcoin.

I think that's what Strike offers. Does Fold offer this?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 Feb

No, not yet, but I don't really see the difference between pushing to fiat for a just in time payment or having a third party exchange for fiat on your behalf.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

I don't see this in my app.... how can I do this? I don't have to push to card? I can pay a fiat bill using my Sats?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Cje95 19 Feb

To push you go to the Bitcoin button (second from the left) and then tap the send button and when you do that you are able to hit "Push to Card"

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

Yes, I know how to push-to-card.

But then I have to estimate exactly how much I need. I'm goin to have some fiat in that account doing it that way. It incentivizes fiat savings!!!!!

If Strike can take my mortgage payment and do the calculation for me, making it so that I don't even have a single fiat penny in my fiat simp account, that's what I want!

I want to swipe the card at a fiat terminal and have Fold do the conversation instantly. I believe Strike does this.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cje95 19 Feb

You literally said I don’t have Push to Card bro 😂 like what?!?

Based off Strikes FAQs it doesn’t so… idk what to tell you it does what Fold does

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad OP 19 Feb

???

With Fold I have to push-to-card. Right?

Is that the case with Strike? I don't know. Going to find out soon.

I'd prefer they handle the exact, to-the-penny conversion.

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