Its Wild to Watch the War Mongers Expose Themselves \ stacker news ~Politics_And

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Its Wild to Watch the War Mongers Expose Themselves

538 sats \ 17 comments \ @kepford 10 Mar Politics_And_Law

I'm not a Republican or Democrat. But as a young man I was a Republican. I remember the criticism from the right when Democrats would try to enter talks with hostile regimes. I remember the right wing being so pro war that it turned me away from the movement.

Today we have the opposite. Not just in the US but in Europe. So called liberal regimes that seem hell bent on World War 3. Its wild to listen to left wingers criticize a president for peace talks. Its wild for the right to be pushing to end conflict and find resolution that isn't just "bomb them".

I fully expect to be called names for posting this. Its the kind of thing that used to happen to the left wing antiwar crowd. To be clear. The Republicans aren't doves. Many still push for war in the middle east. Many seek to make China the enemy.

So why is this happening? I really think democracies need war to sustain themselves. Its one of many reasons I'm not a fan of democracy as a social system. Wars unite people against a common enemy. Wars give people a "moral" cause. They give people something to use to create heroes and legends.

Like most issues, in a bi-polar democracy like the US if one side takes side A, the other must take side B. Its become clear that when one party seeks to make peace the other pushes for war. I hope peace wins. Stop making excuses for the US and the west. Yeah, Putin is an evil dictator that invaded Ukraine but if you think that's the whole story I can't help you. But this war needs to end. The leaders of the world do not care about the Ukrainian people. Don't kid yourself. Its all about power and money like all wars. Those dying are dying for the elites. Its disgusting and sad.

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88 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 10 Mar

You missed the biggest one: war gives people a reason to need the state.

39 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 10 Mar

Indeed I did. Just a stream of consciousness post. War is the health of the state.

66 sats \ 7 replies \ @denlillaapan 23h

I really think democracies need war to sustain themselves. Its one of many reasons I'm not a fan of democracy as a social system. Wars unite people against a common enemy. Wars give people a "moral" cause. They give people something to use to create heroes and legends.

PREEEACH!

Nah, honestly I'm with you. Don't for the life of me understand why so many are so happy to stoke the warmongering ideas. If you'd plop a left-wing person from 1968 into the 2020s, they'd be mightily confused: what, we are the people of war, of censorship, of restricting information, of mandating medical treatments. WHAT?!

28 sats \ 6 replies \ @kepford OP 22h

If you'd plop a left-wing person from 1968 into the 2020s, they'd be mightily confused: what, we are the people of war, of censorship, of restricting information, of mandating medical treatments. WHAT?!

Indeed. I mean even Obama's election. There was so much anti-war momentum after 8 years of Bush. Its truly wild to witness what has happened. We have short memories.

51 sats \ 5 replies \ @denlillaapan 22h

whatcha think about this?

https://www.ft.com/content/724d9205-f449-4edf-9754-f37fa5d8f504

108 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford OP 22h

I chuckle honestly. I'm far from an expert on Europe but I have been paying attention to the EU since the early 2000s. On the one hand they are basically admitting that they have been passively ridding on the US's dime for decades. I mean, anyone that is paying attention and honest knows it. The establishment in the US wants to keep the status quo because the US is an empire. Trump looks at it differently. Like, what are we getting for all this money we are blowing? Russia is NOT the USSR. The world has evolved greatly since the 1990s and NATO was designed for an enemy that no longer exists.

On the other hand I wonder if the US leaving NATO will lead to wars in Europe. I don't buy the lie that Europe is united. I know many Americans do but I don't buy it. There are centuries of conflict in Europe and I wonder if we will see that come back. If it does I'm in favor of letting them work it out themselves. These conflicts need to be rejected by each people group for what they are. Elites seeking to gain more land, power, and wealth at the expense of the blood of plebs.

I think this headline is funny because already I'm hearing division between the Germans and the French. Europe is a mess and I don't see them improving as a result of this. Now... if we continue to see more anti-EU movements arise there might be a chance. Those groups get called far right. I don't really care what they get called. They sound like people that want to move back the halls of power to their own capitals instead of Brussels.

65 sats \ 2 replies \ @denlillaapan 22h

Freakin' leeeeesgo, sir.

Where is the standalone post on this??

29 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 22h

You know... I'm gonna guess that arms companies are pitching EU scum hard right now. Writing up plans on how to spend more of the money of Europeans on arming the EU. Its gonna be a huge market. People that just swallow what these evil liars say in front of cameras are fools. I don't buy what they are selling.

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7 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 22h

🤷 I'm no expert. I do pay attention. I can smell BS from a mile away.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 22h

Economist Bob Murphy commented on the reaction of Europeans to Trumps meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Its kinda wild to watch people that want a leader to give them money mock that leader. Its weird. I hadn't thought about it but he makes a good point.

Additionally everyone demanding Trump state that the war is Putin's fault and they he invaded... duh. But if you are negotiating with someone that has a position of strength you don't start by calling them names. And we are all supposed to believe Putin is this evil mad man but at the same time the way he should be addressed is by pointing a finger at him. Its kinda dumb.

If you have a crazy dude that is a threat to a bunch of people, you want to de-escalate not escalate. The war mongers seem to want WW3 while telling us all we need to be worried about Putin starting WW3. Its pretty dumb to me. I don't have a problem with people saying "we can't trust Putin". Of course. Are we 5 years old? We can't trust our own President.

What is most ironic to me in all of this is that the people that scream about nationalism demonstrate it more strongly than Trump. They act like the US and NATO are innocent and have never lied or misled the Russians. They never caused any reason for alarm. The US and NATO are only good and their intentions should just be trusted. Its absurd when you consider the different administrations and their actions over the decades. Bush was called Hitler like Trump is now. The hate for him was insane (for many good reasons).

I don't think Americans realize how biased they are towards the USA and NATO. I don't think the USA is worse than Putin. But there are no clean hands here. And no, I don't trust either side. The idea that Zelenskyy is just working for the people is naive. I promise you he has some very nasty dudes running him. He is working to save his own skin. I believe the same of Putin. These guys are puppets. The plebs are cannon fodder and the sooner the US pull support and this ends the better. If Trump can make a deal that prevents Putin from taking the rest of the country that would be great.

Ukraine was NEVER gonna win this war. Even with all the money in the world they will not win it. That was never the goal from the NATO perspective. It was to bleed Putin and remove him from power from the inside. That failed.

39 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 10 Mar

I'm not even sure it's that high minded. I think the people who control the levers of power just rationally benefit from the war.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 10 Mar

For sure but I do think there are intellectuals that believe that democracies need war for the reasons I stated. I've read it to many times both in the positive and the negative. The roots of the Neocon movement believed this for sure.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @CruncherDefi 22h

Its wild to listen to left wingers criticize a president for peace talks. Its wild for the right to be pushing to end conflict

"Peace at all costs" is very poor strategy theory-game wise (modelling war as iterated prisoner-dilemma game). It an open invitation for 'always defect' players that will wreck the 'peace at all costs' player.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford OP 21h

So talking and saying we want to end the war is "peace at all costs"? Come on? Peace at all costs is a straw man.

There are two positions I actually respect.

Putin needs to be stopped so Europe sends in actual troops to defend Ukraine. (I think this is terrible but I understand it and it is logically consistent.)
Seek to end the war at the negotiation table with Putin.

This "funding" the war stuff is just prolonging a war that should have lasted weeks. The Americans and the Europeans will not support sending their own children to fight for Ukraine. The Fiat Money printers are as far as they will go. That simply isn't far enough. So end it.

The thing to remember here is that Putin invaded under a weak regime. An obviously weak man and admin that botched the Afgan withdrawal. This is one of the few things I think Trump is right about.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @CruncherDefi 10h

This "funding" the war stuff is just prolonging a war that should have lasted weeks.

Should have lasted weeks with what result? With "Russia takes Ukraine with little cost" result?

Think about game theory here. If 'do war' action is a profitable strategy, any rational player WILL play the 'do war' action again and again. Eventually it will be played against you or you ally.

How do you solve (obtain pareto-optimal solution) prisoner dilemma game? By modifying reward matrix and converting it into trivial game in which cooperation is always better than defecting. You do that by making defecting action more costly.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford OP 2h

So the US should just fund this war forever? What would you do?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @CruncherDefi 1h

1 . About the 'forever' part:

What makes you think this war would last forever? Russia is weak compared to US.

2 . About the 'should' part:

Deal so far was "USA is global policeman and protects NATO countries; NATO countries pay the policeman by buying and holding US bonds/US dollars in their treasuries".

USA was not doing policing by the kindness of their heart lol. It was a transaction.

And if you are paid for a service you should fulfill your part. Unless US wants to stop that deal - which is fair but in that case US should not 'suggest' NATO countries to use&hold dollars anymore.

My intuition is that being a global policeman and collecting a tribute from half the word for that service is a pretty good place to be. So its probably in US best interest to maintain that position.