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Should Mars have its own Bitcoin chain?

Don't worry: this isn't another pop science post about space Bitcoin -- it's about scaling and soft forks. Please forgive me if you find the Martian conceit tiresome.

Everyone knows Martians can't mine BTC

Light takes from 3 to 22 minutes to travel between the two planets, depending on where they are in their orbits. If you're trying to mine BTC on Mars, any block you are mining on is at least three minutes old, probably older -- possibly as many as 22 minutes old. And if you happen to find a block, you're going to experience the same delay before you can tell the rest of the network about it. Odds are, Martian miners aren't going to be adding blocks to the chain. But this is old news.

Mars needs its own Lightning Network

Mining BTC is out, but what about using it? Given the amount of back and forth communication between Lightning nodes, it seems unlikely that you could use Lightning between planets. At the least, the Lightning nodes on Mars would risk being partitioned off from nodes on Earth -- there might be lots of Martians-to-Martian channels but a channel between Mars and Earth seems a bit risky. But perhaps there could be a Lightning network local to Mars, just with some adjustments for the communication delay.

Using BTC on Mars means longer waits

It's possible Martians will keep using BTC, just with longer confirmation times and greater risk that their broadcast could be embargoed (who knows how centralized communication between the two planets will be). In the worst case scenario, their view of the chain is five or more blocks behind the people on Earth. The Martian portion of the network might get partitioned off if it doesn't have a healthy number of connections to the BTC network on Earth. And if all the miners are on Earth, there is a clear risk that miners could act to censor Martian transactions.

MBTC

So there are a lot of complications to making Bitcoin work with interplanetary latency, and it's worth asking the question: why not just take the same code as BTC and start a new Bitcoin chain on Mars? Even the Redditers got this far.
Perhaps, we could change a few things: like address encoding to make sure that people don't accidentally lock BTC from Earth to Martian BTC addresses -- just like we already do with testnets -- and possibly fix the 32-bit timestamp problem or maybe adopt a quantum-resistant signature scheme (if it isn't already part of BTC), and probably change the mining algorithm so the mining superpowers on Earth can't 51% attack the Mars chain.
Now Mars has MBTC and Earth has BTC -- both follow the description of Bitcoin in the whitepaper, but they are different chains and have different histories. Are both of them Bitcoin? If they are, did the Martians just scale Bitcoin?

Wait...isn't starting a new chain bad?

The noob question: "What stops someone from just starting a new Bitcoin?" isn't as stupid as it sounds. Arguably this is exactly what happened shortly after Bitcoin got going.
By the end of 2011, we already had BitDNS, Namecoin, Multicoin, Ixcoin, Devcoin, Solidcoin, Geist Geld, Tenebrix, and Litecoin.
In general, early Bitcoiners seemed to be excited about these new chains. Some of them changed very little from Satoshi's original client. Others altered so much that they clearly didn't even fit the somewhat broad description of Bitcoin laid out in the whitepaper. There were a few chains that were obviously scams, but the most frequent complaint about these new chains was the premines.

A blockchain doesn't scale

Bitcoin is famously bad at scaling. Bitcoin blocks are mined every 10 minutes on average. Because of the difficulty adjustment, nothing speeds this up. Increases in the number of miners, advances in ASIC efficiency, and access to cheaper power all get leveled every 2016 blocks when the difficulty adjustment irons out the wrinkles and gives us a new epoch of 10 minute blocks.
Since we can't speed Bitcoin up, the most common scaling proposal is that we should increase the size of blocks. Bitcoiners seem to have generally accepted the conclusion that this doesn't result in much scaling either because it comes at the cost of reduced security (which is changing the product, not scaling) and it seems dubious that there is some optimal blocksize beyond which we will never need to increase.
If increasing the amount of blockspace that has similar security assurances to BTC is the goal, it seems that a possible solution would be starting another chain that has similar security assurances to BTC. Afterall, if MBTC gets more people using Bitcoin, isn't that scaling?

Is it the chain or the consensus rules that make it Bitcoin?

What do we mean when we say Bitcoin Only? Do we mean this particular chain with exactly these proofs of work and exactly this transaction history or do we mean exactly these consensus rules? Mining is probabalistic and so clearly the blocks that get mined could have a different proof of work and still be considered "real" Bitcoin blocks. And whether you choose to send a transaction today or not doesn't change the reality that the BTC chain is Bitcoin. All of which leads to the conclusion that it's the consensus rules that make the BTC chain Bitcoin.
But if it is a coin's consensus rules that make that particular coin Bitcoin, we certainly can entertain multiple Bitcoin chains with the same rules.

Scaling bitcoin with soft forks vs scaling bitcoin with new chains

The soft fork conversation is often synonymous with the scaling conversation. There are many proposals that will make it easier to use Lightning or to run Ark, but making those things easier is something that should be evaluated on their own merits.1 But as far as changing Bitcoin in order to allow more people to use Bitcoin, soft forks are talking about scaling.
I recently read Antoine Poinsot's article on soft forks and noted his emphasis on being cautious when it comes to soft forks:
To be taken seriously, anyone suggesting to activate anything needs to acknowledge a soft fork comports substantial political and technical risks to a network that millions depend on for their censorship-resistant payments and that secures trillions of dollars worth of other people’s money.
This is a good approach to keep in mind, especially when the justifications for changing consensus are mostly what-ifs: what if fees get too high, what if government tries to enforce KYC-AML onchain -- perhaps hypotheticals aren't reason enough to change consensus rules.
It also makes me wonder, is there a world where a new chain is a more reasonable scaling solution than a soft fork?

Footnotes

  1. For instance, Lightning settles within seconds. That's awesome. Bitcoin doesn't do that. So saying we should change Bitcoin in order to make this functionality easier to use is an interesting conversation. But it is a different conversation than the one about getting more people access to Bitcoin via Lightning.
Ironically, the latency issue is one of the many reasons big blocks are retarded, I mean literally retarded, big blocks take longer to propagate. Even just a few milliseconds increases miner centralization by benefiting the miner of the most recent block.
(not that we should even perpetuate the idea that big blocks scale anything, the only scaling limitation is the indivisible supply)
Though technically, it wouldn't be impossible for Martians to get lucky and find a block and broadcast it back to earth before earth finds a block. Hour+ deltas between blocks happen all the time, now what if a few major miners on earth become subject to a grid-level attack or DoS? An asymmetrically weaker mining operation on Mars could take control of the chain with much less hashrate.
how centralized communication between the two planets will be
Getting back to reality yea, Mars will be a centralized colony for the foreseeable future with no need for external currency... SpaceX coin credits for the cafeteria don't need decentralized trustless Lightning channels.
soft fork conversation is often synonymous with the scaling conversation
Because there's plenty of scammers and even more useful idiots
The only scaling limitation Bitcoin has now is supply, as in, not enough people will ever be able to own enough sats (5-6 digits worth of sats) to transact, even if the chain is at a perpetual 1 sat/byte due to gigameg blocks or other shitfork.
Given the size of large player stockpiles, at most < 1 billion households/organizations will ever have sovereign access... really it's probably a fraction of that. That means there's no real-world transaction bottleneck.
Since big blocks or shitforks can't actually lower the minimum transaction cost of sovereign utility, scammers must obfuscate that with their centrally coordinated, sybil prone, fake L2 applications.
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The website smells like scam.
I think if it was run by actual scientists with Mars colony ambitions, the website would look a lot more janky, lol.
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What you lose with scaling with more chains is that the smaller chains will have weaker security due to a lower hashrate, but in turn they will have cheaper transaction fees.
This is kinda already happening but the other chains also have differing consensus rules, outside of the mars situation I don't know how a smaller copy of bitcoin would get off the ground while we have L2 solutions for the main chain.
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Yes. I would agree that it is already happening. But I do find it curious that there isn't a serious "almost exactly the same consensus rules as btc" chain.
No doubt it comes down to getting off the ground.
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It also makes me wonder, is there a world where a new chain is a more reasonable scaling solution than a soft fork?
Bitcoin is worth what it is because of its simplicity and, most importantly, because no government controls it. If this new chain doesn’t have the same properties, I think it’ll flop. Can’t give you a straight answer to your question, but that’s how I see it.
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There probably isn't a straight answer. But I'm curious what people think would be necessary for a chain following Bitcoin consensus rules to be a viable scaling solution.
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That’s a legit question, but I don’t really have the expertise to give a clear answer. If there was a concrete proposal, maybe I could say something.
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I think the premise here is that the Mars chain does have the same properties as the original Earth chain.
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Same enough to still have roughly similar consensus rules.
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They can run a federated sidechain like Liquid or Rootstock, with peg in and peg out to Bitcoin.
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But why? My question is why any of that (or a soft fork) is necessary when a new chain can follow pretty much the same consensus rules.
If we want more blockspace (or more users at a lower fee level) why not just start a second chain? Why add complexity to get the same result?
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because a new chain will be issuing more coins, inflating the limit of 21m sats
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Disagree. They wouldn't be sats, they'd be whatever the people using the chain want to call them.
This is the difference between whether you think it is the chain history that makes it Bitcoin or the consensus rules.
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if you don't care to use hard money, no one can force you to. bitcoin is not just the consensus rules or a "blockchain technology". it is a hard limit and network effect that cannot be repeated.
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This is one of the points I find most interesting: is there some special about btc and how it got started, such that no other chain, even using the same consensus rules, can ever duplicate it?
Is it the same result, when accounting for whatever interplanetary commerce will be happening?
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This is a very interesting point. I imagine people would probably agree to settle in whatever currency is most conducive to that particular trade (kinda like international trade now).
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What if there is a node/miner/watchtower in space somewhere in the middle between the Earth and Mars? The time to get to this middle point would be half from both planets. There can be more such floating nodes on 1/4, 3/4 of the distance to increase decentralization, reliability and probably even trust.
(Just thinking loudly.)
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I had similar thoughts. Hypothetically, the "center of mass" of mining could drift to a point in between Earth and Mars: perhaps an enormous train of miners sling-shotting between the two planets.
That would only work for these two planets, though. @Scoresby's underlying point would still hold if we switch our example to Io or something else further out in the solar system.
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Unfortunately, there's no way around the speed of light.
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149 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 19h
Martians already have their https://www.marscoin.org/ 😂😂😂😂
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It seems kinda shitty. The TM is a bit of a giveaway.
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17 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 19h
What did you expect from martians?
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Maybe a new blockchain is the more logical choice. And it won't be bitcoin, it will be some other name coin. Unfortunatelly since everybody knows the game now, I am not sure if it is possible to grow organically like bitcoin without early martian settlers capturing it.
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22 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 12h
i think that one cannot solve such challenging problems only with the currently available technology.
i am of the opinion that useful technology is being given back to the average people at a very slow rate, only as fast as their pleb brains can handle it.
with regards to the Mars blockchain, we have to be given back superluminal frequencies and perception of quantum entanglement - then everyone can synchronize to the bitcoin timechain easily. this is particularly useful because people on Mars might otherwise have no idea what timeline they're in - they shall be timed by fiat.
i actually wish that the difficulty of getting on and off the fiat rails will become incredibly high, similar to getting on and off Mars. at the very least, the cost of getting back onto fiat rails shud become prohibitively high. right now it's the opposite!
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What do we mean when we say Bitcoin Only?
For me it's the consensus rules and I believe in this purely by the Shakespeare's philosophy of "What's in a name?"
I also believe that the easier the tech is, the faster the adoption will be.
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39 sats \ 1 reply \ @Jp_digital 16h
Bro. Let's get there and build a house and some shit before we start talking about payment rail infrastructure..I like where ur head is at tho. Lol
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I'm not really that interested in Mars. I'm just a simple earthling wondering if we shouldn't start a second Bitcoin chain here instead of soft forking...
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Either the technical same-chain problems are worked out or the problems of interplanetary exchanges are worked out, but somehow value needs to be able to move between planets.
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Yes, for me the interesting thought experiment here is our general resistance to the idea of a second (or multiple chains), and how the "excuse" of a different planet allows for a different viewpoint on alternate chains as scaling solutions.
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Indeed. I'm not particularly dogmatic about the purity of one chain, so the possible solutions to these problems are what interest me.
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