People who run lightning nodes, have you tried running it over tor? Is tor reliable enough? I remember somebody not recommending running lightning node on tor.
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11 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 27 Mar
It works well enough 90% of the time. It's worth the tradeoff if privacy might be a concern. Receiving on lightning is very porous privacy wise.
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50 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Mar
Works well in your perspective, living in a place where you have multiple Tor exit points and your connection is OK.
But do not compare that with LATAM or Asia where Tor is a real pain!
Try running SN node only behind Tor located in Colombia or even El Salvador.
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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Mar
Me. But let's make a clear distinction here between PUBLIC (routing) and PRIVATE (non-routing) nodes.
For a public node, that want to do serious routing, Tor is a killer and not really necessary. You are already PUBLIC so Tor in this case it doesn't offer more "privacy".
Tor for LN is a pain in the ass not only for you the node runner, but also for the other participants, connected to your node or passing through your node (routing).
Why?
Because Tor is adding huge delay in keeping the sync alive and communicating with other peers.
Imagine this:
- a clearnet node with a regular IP will have like 5ms to be achieved
- a clearnet node using a VPN tunnel to a rented IP, will add to those 5ms another 30-50ms
- a Tor only node, will add up to 100-200ms to the connection
In the LN environment when a payment must find very fast the best route, it is crucial to have best time. In matter of ms a route can be depleted so your payment must start over to find another route. That's why sometimes your wallet app stays even 30 seconds until is making the payment. Because in the middle encountered some bullshit crap Tor nodes running in a fucking jungle.
I've explained more about these cases in my previous guides:
- https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/recommendations-ln-node-operators-en.html
- https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/lightning-node-maintenance-en.html
If you are just a normal user, running a node only for your own use case payments, you better do not run a public node and Tor is option, even that IMHO Tor for LN it doesn't offer any privacy. Is just an illusion.
Open up few channels with good LSPs and you can operate behind their back in private.
As I explained in this other guide:
https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/private-ln-nodes-en.html
REMINDER: If you are just a pleb with low liquidity and bad connection and using Tor, YOU BETTER STAY AWAY FROM PUBLIC ROUTING! You are doing more damage than good!
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @BallLightning OP 28 Mar
If lightning is so fragile that enthusiasts can break it without even that being the goal, than it still needs a lot of development.
How so? If your node is know, that doesn't mean that your identity is known. But if it is running on clearnet, your IP address can be linked to your node and your identity to yout ip address.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Mar
LN is not fragile. People running those nodes are.
- You never hear about using a wireguard tunnel with a VPS IP? or use tunnelsats.com ?
- If you run a public routing node and you want to atract more routing, you have to make you more public and give contacts, otherwise you are just an obscure marginalized routing node.
Let's say it clear: we will have many different types of LN nodes, as I explained here #486306 Each one should choose the right one for their own goals and possibilities. Not everybody must run a public node.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BallLightning OP 28 Mar
Public VPNs are not anonymous. The only thing that happens when you use them is that instead of your ISP seeing your traffic, the VPN provider sees your traffic.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Mar
So? As I said, if you really want to be a public routing node, why bother with hidding ?
Tor exit nodes are also vulnerable and controlled. Is just an illusion of privacy.
Or at least use a decoy node, as I explained here:
https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/public-private-node-liquidity-scenario-en.html
Tor nodes were promoted few years ago for total noobs that don't know how to manage their routers, ports and security... with Tor was damn easy to setup a LN node with Umbrel and other bundles without touching the router, domain etc.
But slowly people realized that is a trap. If you really want to run a serious LN node, then Tor is not the good solution. You must be proficient in networking and security.
Otherwise, just run a simple private node and all good.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BallLightning OP 28 Mar
OK, I will take your posts in consideration. I won't be running node now but may in the future to see how (routing) node works.
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