"NO REFUNDS" - TRANSACT WITH CAUTION \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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"NO REFUNDS" - TRANSACT WITH CAUTION x.com/mononautical/status/1909404403037044776

417 sats \ 15 comments \ @unschooled 8 Apr bitcoin_beginners

OP explains a little bit of what happened were but as I've never tried an RBF, I'm a little lost as to how this could happen.

RBF presumably is different from CPFP, but I'd actually never understood how.

Maybe @DarthCoin (or any stacker, for that matter) can help explain?

Someone just accidentally broadcast a transaction with a fee of 0.75 BTC 😭

it appears they tried to RBF a previous transaction, adding an extra input to contribute the additional fees, but forgot to update the change output.

that previous transaction was itself probably an RBF to "cancel" a payment of ~0.2 BTC to an external address.

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121 sats \ 6 replies \ @02a9a61fdc 8 Apr

Replace by fee (RBF) can be done by the sender. The initial transaction is replaced by the same transaction with a higher fee, therefore incentivizing the miner to process it.

Child pays for parent (CPFP) can be done by the recipient. He spends the coin when it is still in mempool, but with a high fee. If a miner wants to earn the high fee he has to process both transactions, the parent with a low fee and the child with the high fee.

10 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

I think we should mention also the 3rd option: pay the fee separately to the miner willing to include that low fee tx into a block, untouched. https://mempool.space/ have a nice service for this. You need to create an account first and then on the same tx you can click on "accelerate" and pay the fee over LN directly to the miner.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @endothermicdev 8 Apr

Is it a nice service, or does it hinder accurate fee estimation for peer-peer users when a significant portion of fees are paid out-of-band? Is this peer-peer usage of the network? What affect does it have on miner decentralization?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @unschooled OP 8 Apr

Hm, ok I've never heard of this method, but intriguing.

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

How so? Fees accelerators were around for many years not just now.

https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/ - pay onchain and with shitcoins and expensive
https://bitaccelerate.com/ - pay only with tether I think
https://mempool.space/accelerator - pay over LN to push your stuck tx

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @unschooled OP 8 Apr

Never needed it I guess.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

Yes, is better to avoid these "bump fees" methods. If you are not familiar you could do mistakes (like the guy in the twatter post or even worse, fucked up a closing channel.

As I explained in this advanced use case scenario using Zeus in a closing channel. I did it on purpose just to be able to document the guide for others. I hope people will read it and avoid doing this kind of mistake.

https://darth-coin.github.io/wallets/zeus-node-advanced-usage-en.html

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174 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

Explain what? How RBF works? Is simply replace a tx with another one with a higher fee.

402 payment required channel have an excellent video tutorial for that.

and here is a video about CPFP (child pay for parent) - when you keep the same tx but pay a higher fee from a child address.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @unschooled OP 8 Apr

Ok so RBF actually replaces the initial transaction, whereas CPFP is a rebroadcast? I'm still a little confused when when they say this person

forgot to update their change output

From the tutorial, it looks like electrum wallet doesn't even require this step.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @02a9a61fdc 8 Apr

CPFP is not a rebroadcast. When doing CPFP, the recipient spends the output before it is confirmed, but with a high fee. If the miner wants to collect the high fee, he has to mine both transactions because the one with the second one (the child) depends on the first (the parent).

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @unschooled OP 8 Apr

Thanks for the point of clarification.

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

Electrum and Sparrow are doing RBF and CPFP in very simple steps. Just right click on a unconfirmed tx and you can choose one or another method.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @unschooled OP 8 Apr

Lol, so this midwit did something weird. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how they messed up so badly.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Apr

yeah many noobs doing this, due to bad UI of the wallets they use. Many noobs are using really trash wallets. Could be also a bad script of an app too.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 8 Apr bot

https://xcancel.com/mononautical/status/1909404403037044776