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235 sats \ 15 replies \ @kepford 17 Apr \ on: What do you think is a fair way of dealing with cheaters? AskSN
That's a tough one. The reality is that if your goal is to learn but instead you cheat you are really harming yourself more than anyone else. Think about it. If you the teacher are graded on the students performance you are not really incentivized to stop the cheating.
I don't like the word fair. Its not ever clear to me what it means to another person but I assume you mean fair to the other students who are not cheating. If that is the case it isn't about fairness. Those that work hard and learn but possibly get a lower grade are actually getting more out of the class than those that cheat or short cut things. It may not feel like it is fair to them but I think if I were a teacher I'd start my class out each semester explaining all of this.
Cheating is cheating yourself first. Not only of the knowledge but of the confidence built by being challenged and overcoming that challenge. When you cheat you are setting a pattern and cheating in a classroom is a really low pressure situation when you compare it to the real world. Is your character and self respect worth that little to you?
To answer your question I don't see anything unfair about asking for oral assessments or written ones on paper in class. I haven't been in a classroom as a student in many years but I did go back to college as an adult with a real job and kids and the young students drove me insane with their lack of work ethic and care for the process of learning. I wanted that degree. I also wanted to learn and I often found myself in the minority. I was paying for my classes as well and I get the feeling many of the others were not.
We do not value learning as we should. We are a spoiled culture and I firmly believe this is why foreign students out perform native US students in many areas. Its not universal but I believe culture and values are a large part of it.
I agree, the person they're harming the most is themselves.
For me, I just can't tolerate it if they get a higher grade than the students who are trying their best and not cheating.
I don't curve, so each student will get the grade they deserve, but if a cheater has an A and an honest student has a B+, that could affect them later when looking for a job. So I feel the need to punish the cheaters, not for their sake, but for the sake of the honest students.
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Yeah... just saying that's up to you as an individual. If Joe cheats and gets fake grades he will likely struggle massively in Harvard. I've read stories of kids that get into high level schools due to affirmative action programs and can't take it because they didn't get in on merit. Same goes for cheating. But your point is correct. There are benefits to cheating. Its the tradeoffs.
There are a number of layers to it.
The most obvious one is grad schools. Some students want to go to grad school and are willing to cheat to make it there. I wouldn't be surprised if much of our political and bureaucratic class are those types of people.
I agree that most employers don't pay attention to grades, but they might use GPA as a screen.
Then, there are things like student aid or various other awards and scholarships that will look at your grades.
Lastly, graduating too many cheaters will have a negative effect on the reputation of your university.
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Those that work hard and learn but possibly get a lower grade are actually getting more out of the class than those that cheat or short cut things.
This sounds very idealistic to me. That’s unfortunately not how society works.
For example, I did cheat in college to pass some stupid requirements to get my proof of paper (Bachelor’s degree) and I would say I turned out fine. I obviously don’t know where I would be if I didn’t cheat but I think it’s reasonable to assume not having this proof of paper would have kept some doors closed so that I might not be working for SN right now.
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The paper does not account for getting a marginally better grade. I don't disagree with you but there is no record in my resume of getting a B on a class 20 years ago...
But if I learned more then I don't regret it.
If your goal is to get the paper... you achieved it. That doesn't affect the person that was sitting next to you who didn't cheat. When I was an adult in college trying to get that piece of paper I had to deal with this because students around me were doing things that did affect me. If they cheated on a test... not so much.
I think we over-focus on grades. I've learned far more since I left school. I don't get a grade for a book I read or a project I finished. Schools are literally unlike anything we experience in real life. They are fake environments designed to turn us into machines.
If you wanna see who is learning in a classroom do group projects. I hated them because it almost always ended up being me and one other person doing the work. These people probably cheated on tests too. Now that affected me. Not carrying their own weight.
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there is no record in my resume of getting a B on a class 20 years ago...
Of course not, because it has been 20 years. Grades become irrelevant the moment you have better proof of skills, but when you’re fresh out of college that’s mostly all you have.
That doesn't affect the person that was sitting next to you who didn't cheat.
It would if we apply to the same job and they don’t get employed because they have no degree while I do. It’s not that deep.
I think we over-focus on grades.
Yes but do you have a better idea to get a quick assessment of the “skills” of a whole generation of people?
“Skills” because I agree, school isn’t there to make us happy, it’s there to know who can follow arbitrary rules the best and that’s a good prediction if you’ll be easy to work with hence you’re more likely to get a job.
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Are your replies a collab work? @ek
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