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SN media coverage: in a nutshell, what's the message we send out?
850 sats \ 19 comments \ @deSign_r 21 Apr meta

There's any content about SN out there?There's any content about SN out there?

In the news:

Recently we have seen an article in BM writing about how PlebLab is shaping the future of bitcoin startups in Austin. SN was mentioned and linked 🎉

Started in 2021 by one of PlebLab’s cofounders Keyan Kousha, Stacker.news has quickly become a hub of news for many tech-savvy Bitcoiners. Boasting an open source Lightning-powered Reddit, the platform has gathered an active and loyal fan base that reward each other with sats for every upvote, often being early to integrate the latest technologies in the Bitcoin-social media tech scene.

In the past it has also only mentioned here.

From a startup pitch perspective:

Developer of a news platform intended for individuals to earn real money for creating and curating content. The company's platform specializes in allowing individuals to submit, vote, and comment on content, stories, and discussions about the topics in communities organized around their interests, enabling individuals to post content and get paid while reading the news.
PitchBook - https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/535835-44#overview
Stacker News is a forum (like Reddit or Hacker News) where you can earn real money for creating or curating content.
F6S - https://www.f6s.com/company/stacker-news#about

People talking about SN:

Heh, it’s not a healthy or sustainable model for the types of communities consciously we build for. Definitely not something we would consider building into core but you could make it work with a plugin. Extrinsic motivators attract the wrong people for the wrong reasons, in my experience. Healthy community ecosystems are driven by intrinsic motivation.
  • on BitcoinTalk here, here and here. There are probably more posts where it has ben mentioned and discussed.
  • HackerNews crowd does not seem too excited about it. Just few comments on each post.

Some review have been collected on @julian's Apollo and ProductHunt.

Let's check what YT has:

Some interviews first. At 2023 ZBD x PlebLab TabConf Hackathon, Keyan Kousha explain Why Not to Use Stacker News

@kr did a great job interviewing k00b when SN was in its infancy

And here some interviews:

Stacker News is a user-generated, feed-style news platform, modeled after Hacker News, but with the important distinction of having natively-integrated bitcoin lightning payments, as a means of fostering more natural communities (think less spam and antisocial behavior), cultivating high-signal bitcoin content, and providing a better user experience overall.
Stacker News is still in the very early days of its development, but it's a great showcase of how bitcoin can be used to improve upon an existing model, and in doing so, explore how improved incentives might influence media publishing, monetization, and moderation.
Keyan is a prime example of someone who caught the bitcoin bug, and just couldn't resist getting involved. The result is a product built with and for bitcoiners, and it was great to have him on the show to explain more about his motivations and ambitions.

That's the interviews I was able to find. Continuing the dig...

Gradually, then suddenly, the message start to change, and the majority of videos communicate something that is probably, at least from my perspective, not the right way to market a product like SN:

@HattyHats Earn Bitcoin (LN) Blogging with Stacker News

The long list continues:

This list of references can, and probably will, go on and on with the same topic. The message looks like will be always the same: come over, stack sats, stay humble. There's maybe something wrong with the message we share SN out there? Is not what we do, is how we do it, that make the difference. As you can see, there's not much there that refer to quality content, great supportive community, community moderated contents, no ads, no spam, no bots (well, not many) and no ai. Pure human content.

In other successful platforms where people earn money for the contents they create, the money factor is totally hidden, is not their main sales point in the pitch. Look at YT itself. We all know people earn fiat producing and sharing videos, but their comms does not talk about it, at least not the way stackers do. And you'll not find many YTers inviting others to create videos to earn money. Well ok, some do!

Something we could make an effort to improve, is the way we talk about SN. Finding alternative ways to do it is hard, some have been mentioned here #948462

Just wanted to see how much other quality content is out there talking about SN that is not about stacking sats? Share your best contents, nostr notes, x tweets, blog posts, articles, videos, interviews, reviews or any other media that has been created by others about SN (no memes shill) or that somehow mention it in the comments below.

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232 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 21 Apr

Great job putting this together.

I do think there is some value in promoting SN for the quality of content and discourse but the whole idea of exchanging value for your content/time/attention through the use of bitcoin over lightning is the revolutionary change compared to these other platforms so I wouldn't completely remove that from the sales pitch.

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40 sats \ 2 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

I agree, it's revolutionary! I still everyday more convinced that the whole reward system should be less explicit and not showcased as a selling point or an onboarding feature.

Considering we want to reach the world (and have HN, Reddit, LessWrong and others considering SN a competitor) the entry barriers that SN has currently in place for new users are really high. One need to know what a LN wallet is (if custodial or non-custodial... that give head hakes to many probably), understand bitcoin (because that's what we mostly talk about around here).

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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 21 Apr

The breadth of conversation beyond just Bitcoin has really expanded since territories so we are moving in the right direction in that regard.

I think you were on the right track creating the territory specific banners etc. Territories can play a role in bringing in new users who aren't necessarily into bitcoin and expand the subject matter on SN even further. We have brought some people over from twitter and Nostr to talk sports and participate in pools and contests. Now, they all are bitcoiners but they aren't coming here to talk about Bitcoin. They might do that while they are here but it is not the main reason.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

You are right, territories expanded a bit the kind of conversations we are having here. That's why I started ~Design. The whole thing probably just need more time.

Would something like this be good or bad for SN?

That's what people are used to... upvote, downvote

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15 sats \ 11 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Apr

Interesting compilation. I agree that the focus should be on the quality community.

How do you differentiate SN from competitors though, if not through the incentive system?

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39 sats \ 5 replies \ @NovaRift 21 Apr
How do you differentiate SN from competitors though, if not through the incentive system?

No user data selling. No personalized feed. No algorithm designed to target you. It’s just what’s on the screen. Everyone has a lot to share here, with so much actual proof of work shown. No Bs nothing.

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25 sats \ 3 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

Everyone has a lot to share everywhere. Question yourself why people come around here in the first place. It is probably not one of the reasons you mentioned.

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48 sats \ 2 replies \ @NovaRift 21 Apr

I've found the best place. If you go on the Reddit Bitcoin subreddit, you'll get banned for stupid reasons. Everyone has limited what they share because they fear a permanent ban (on that sub and Reddit itself). I came from Reddit and it's all dumbshit there. I wish we had more users here, but I think that's how growth happens. Stacker News user growth is small but steady. It's not just Bitcoin stuff there are many other topics as well. Here, people are all ears and willing to listen and you don't get warnings from mods. So that's what I mean. My horizon is quite small.

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33 sats \ 1 reply \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

That's true, not everyone can say what they want where they want, like it happens here. Censorship free platform is a great value to add to the list. I'm glad you made it until here, look's like you are doing great. Keep it up!

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift 21 Apr

Thanks!

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15 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Apr

We have to take their word for the first point and they do (or did and will) have personalized feeds.

That appeal does target a specific audience who are more likely to appreciate us, though.

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21 sats \ 4 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

Good question, k00b mentioned some competitors #948499 never joined LessWrong, nor Delving (I'm unable to find).

How do you differentiate SN from competitors though, if not through the incentive system?

Good question, by default I go for exclusion, so if the reward system is something that is attracting mostly assmilkers and friends trying to get rich quick, I'll try to avoid talking about it to onboard new people.

SN offers a simple tool that enable to create posts. They can be used to post anything, from essays to poems, from news to blog posts. The contest make the difference. They could be used to create and maintain a photographer or designer portfolio for example.

The key for noncoiners to join and receive some "credit-to-be-able-to-post" later is the bio. A good intro in the community means opening the door to be listened. Many users I invite, get this wrong, just create the account, lurk around for a bit and when they realize they aren't able to post without getting credits, they leave.

From my perspective, all the reward system should be put on the side, I'm not saying it should be removed, just that it could be less explicit or hidden somehow. The fact that we don't have a leaderboard is a great sign, this does not mean that users aren't ranked anymore internally. Hopefully we can rename the word "sats" ad find something else to use within SN. Cowboy Credits is fun, but where there's credit, there's also debt. BitcoinTalk use merits as trust system. YT use views and number of subscribers. LessWrong, HN and Reddit use votes.

Obviously these are just ideas, happy to hear your thoughts on it.

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21 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Apr

I’m conflicted on this point. The rewards system, and broader incentive structure, attracts both the right and wrong kinds of people (and probably turns off both the right and wrong kinds of people).

I know I was excited about it for the same reasons as k00b. Costly posts reduce noise and properly designed rewards encourage pro social behavior.

I doubt I would have checked SN out if the ad hadn’t emphasized how sats are built into it.

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34 sats \ 2 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

I'd like to see some data to validate this. For now, we can only make assumptions

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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 21 Apr

I like trying a variety of things. Stacker News has many appealing traits, after all.

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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @deSign_r OP 21 Apr

Content make the difference

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @plebpoet 22 Apr

stack sats is the message in my opinion

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @deSign_r OP 26 Apr

Do you think is good message or slogan?

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebpoet 27 Apr

yeah I mean, look around, I love what's going on here

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