I don't even have a problem with workers uniting and forming a group to collectively negotiate. The issue is when the state gets involved really. As long as its voluntary its fine.

Here's the eye opening thing. Socialist reject voluntarism. They want to force everyone to live under their rules. There is nothing stopping people from creating their own voluntary socialist societies within the US or other countries. I have no issue with this. I would never live in one but it has been done and can be done.

I think this is the way forward. Voluntarism. The thing is, the free market will win. Free trade and exchange will destroy any socialist system. The only way socialism wins is it uses violent force. And by win, I don't mean works. It doesn't work. Its like poison.

The US and other western nations take a little poison (socialism) and because they have so many wealthy productive people the poison doesn't kill the system fully. But if we were to remove all of the poison how much stronger could we be?

Of course we do need charity, good will, and morals. The problem is socialism seeks to provide that and it can't. You need faith traditions and kinship of man to do this. You need a culture that cares for each other. You can't make that a state system. It will destroy itself.