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I had a rough weekend visiting two old buddies who happen to both be very sick and nearing the end. Friends gathered in the city where we all met in college, which happened to also be where they both live. I ran into some people who I haven't seen for years.
At some point I got into a conversation with one of them. Due to a disability, he has not worked in years. He is now retirement age and trying to get by in the US on social security and a small retirement account. He is politically left of center.
He was ranting about Trump and the way he is destroying his investments, when he said "I'll tell you one thing I will never sell, and that's bitcoin. "
I couldn't believe it. I played dumb and asked why. He asked me if I noticed how bitcoin hadn't gotten crushed that badly lately. He explained that he heard RFK jr say that he had most of his wealth in bitcoin. I feigned complete ignorance, curious to hear what he was thinking.
He explained that RFK jr and the whole Trump team are planning to prop "crypto" up and get rich off of it while they destroy the economy. They will all make a killing in bitcoin.
I nodded. I asked him at what price he had bought bitcoin. He told me 78 dollars. I gasped. I asked how many years ago he had bought it. He said only 6 months ago. I said I thought it was like $90 k. He then says, "no, the Fidelity ETF is at like $82 now." He then explained to me that nobody buys actual bitcoin. You just buy the ETF. It's safer and easier.
There was no time for me to dig into the conversation. I realized that there must be a lot of people with a skewed idea of bitcoin out there, buying up microstrategy and ETFs. It was depressing, but maybe this is part of that "sly, roundabout way."
36 sats \ 0 replies \ @spiderman 8h
A great thing for on-chain stackers like me, I guess? I can almost guarantee a massive rug pull in the next 50 years.
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this post reads just like this meme
i had that same conversation just a couple of weeks ago!
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Sorry for your friends @siggy47 🙏
I just realized memes might not be the appropriate reply here
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@siggy47 take it easy, he's only laughing at his friend's ignorance. 💁
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memes are life and life is a meme. Is a good meme and appropriate.
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No, that's fine. That meme was spot on.
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😂
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In his case, you did well not to say anything. In this specific case, the moral of the story is "ignorance is bliss."
Now, in the case of all the other younger people who buy into this scam, they deserve to be fooled with papers that say they have bitcoin instead of studying and understanding what bitcoin really is.
For one paragraph i thought your friend had a legacy wallet full of bitcoins.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 13h
At least he is aware of what is happening in the world. Im not saying he is right or anything, but he is giving btc a chance. Even though it is with an etf. You have to start somewhere. Its interesting how you can get more information out of someone when you feign ignorance on the subject.
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I agree with your friend to some extent as it is arguable that Trump is using 'crypto' as a means to build a financial structure which can preserve wealth as the US empire declines. I see it as analogous to how Britains elites built their network of tax havens and shadow banking as the British Empire accepted decline post WW2. The Spiders Web doco gives more detail on this. I may be wrong but imo Trump knows US hegemony is in decline and that it makes sense to do what you can to build off ramps and safe havens for wealth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
Some of us of the left embraced Bitcoin as it provided an alternative to the corrupt financial system of bankers and corporate cronies who have captured western democracies. We protested in The Occupy Movement but that had little effect- then Bitcoin presented a way to escape the corrupt fiat USD based monetary system. Bitcoin has Occupied Wall st although imo, sadly, it has also been largely captured by Wall st too.
Bitcoin has become a harmless captured speculative commodity plaything marketed by bankers and tracked, traced and taxed by the government. They have made legal use as a MoE effectively impractical due to tax reporting obligations which leave it only practicable to use Bitcoin as a speculative commodity.
Who here complies with their respective tax reporting obligations when they zap or are zapped? My guess is probably nobody. That is how cleverly and slyly Bitcoin as a P2P MoE has been obstructed and captured and controlled as a harmless speculative commodity.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 17h
Oh dear...
Hope you went on a big rant about self custody after this.
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He then says, "no, the Fidelity ETF is at like $82 now." He then explained to me that nobody buys actual bitcoin. You just buy the ETF. It's safer and easier.
HAHAHA, this story took a dark turn, LOL!
Fucksake, we have some work to do.
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I have been thinking about this since I got home. The weird thing is that if there really are a lot of boomers out there, with their giant retirement accounts, thinking the same way as he is, they may all eventually benefit financially from bitcoin for all the wrong reasons. Of course it's a different story if the ETFs blow up in a paper mess (coinbase)
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They're not wrong about safer and easier though... there are some friends of mine who I wouldn't be comfortable recommending self custody to... I definitely would worry about the risk of them losing their keys or getting scammed.
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Lol
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Actually at some point I started thinking about checking up bitcoin ETFs
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Your story moves me. Sometimes, in vulnerability, the most real things come to light. Your friend doesn’t have bitcoin, but he already believes in it. The message is getting through, even if distorted.
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The narrative has been largely captured and controlled. Most even on here are in denial how successfully Bitcoin has been shifted into a use case and narrative of being a speculative commodity plaything- KYCed, taxed, tracked and traced and mostly/increasingly held via the custody of large centralised US institutions. Fuck all Bitcoin is being used as a P2P payment protocol and where it is being used in that way it is almost always breaching the relevant laws of whatever jurisdiction you are in.
Bitcoin MoE has been quasi outlawed almost everywhere. Yet almost nobody even here acknowledges this.
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I asked him at what price he had bought bitcoin. He told me 78 dollars.
For a sec I thought he'd been an OG
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At this point I got instant question: "How this ignorant person still hasn't sold it?"
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Couldn't figure out how, obviously
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Indeed I don't know how to sell, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask
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He thinks the fix is in. Trump will keep it propped up.
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Quite the plot twist with the $78 bitcoin. Haha
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I spend a decent amount of time in a few discords dedicated to online "social" casinos (the ones that basically get around most gambling laws), and there's some crypto talk there, all of which is around either investment strategies like this, or in the cases of the casinos that payout in btc or crypto, how to get it to an exchange to sell it. I long ago gave up trying to convince folks there otherwise.
Sorry about that weekend -- losing folks you've known that long is tough.
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Thanks for the good wishes. Yeah, I think it would take a while, in a series of conversations, to actually help one of these people to understand bitcoin.
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So, I'm not really sold on the Bitcoin ETF, but I'm always kinda thinkin', is it better to have it than just nothin' at all? What do you guys, the stackers, think?
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Its an ETF so IMO if you have cash never buy it because it's not actually bitcoin. Buy and self custody bitcoin. But many people buy bitcoin on Coinbase and leave it on the exchange. The more I think about it they more I think that this is more risky than the ETF. But it's so easy to pull the coins so do that.
The only scenario I think of for the ETF is a tax advantaged retirement account. You can buy anything but bitcoin. ETF is the next best thing. You could get rugged but unlikely. If you do we are in a really bad situation and you better have actual bitcoin.
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Why do you think the ETF is less risky than an exchange?
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I should narrow what I'm thinking here and I could be wrong.
Here's where that is coming from. The legal protections of funds on an exchange I believe are weaker than the protections of an ETF. There's a much higher standard to get an ETF approved vs. starting up an exchange. Some of this is offset if you use Coinbase since most of the ETFs use Coinbase but it Coinbase goes belly up you better believe the ETFs get more attention than some pleb with 50 million sats on an account.
The trade-off though is that you can very easily take custody of your bitcoin if it is on an exchange and you can't with an ETF. And I would never suggest someone that wants to get into bitcoin buy the ETF. But I would also never say buy bitcoin on Coinbase and leave it there...
Additionally not all exchanges are equal so that's not fair of me. Coinbase is likely much better than some random exchange that started last week.
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I actually do recommend Coinbase to people. Ultimately, I'd recommend that they take their Bitcoin off Coinbase, but it's a stepping stone on the path to learning, imo. The reason I view it more highly than an ETF is because you actually can move your Bitcoin off the exchange, and thus it actually is a step towards eventual self sovereignty.
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Yeah, I don't disagree provided they will move the bitcoin. That's the specific scenario I'm thinking of. If you refuse to custody and will never change your mind (impossible to know I guess) then the ETF might be more safe. Might be...
That said I have never recommended the ETF to anyone other than someone that had money in a tax advantaged account and didn't want to move to Unchained or cash it out.
It is a foot in the door. Some of these ETF buyers will dig deeper and buy Bitcoin from Coinbase and some even P2P.
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That is depressing but also "sly, roundabout way."
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 6 May
Gosh my condolences.
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A digital gold it is in their minds
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Poor man! A few days ago my bank also gave me a free option to invest in foreign stocks and I saw there was MSTR as well. The reason that more people are skewed is how easily Bitcoin ETFs reached to everyone through investment accounts.
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you made me laugh so hard today!
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I wonder if you will reach out to this friend later and correct his gross misconception - even if you have kinda reunited after a hiatus of several years
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with all the bitcoin knowledge and life awareness u have, what gave u the right to say nothing back to a man that is unknowingly or ignorantly letting his fruits of labor disappear into oblivion? how is education supposed to spread without people education each other?
u cud simply say "that is not real bitcoin," and that "safe & easy is not real," or something thought-provoking, short & sweet. u cud give him the youtube channel "Bitcoin University." instead u gave up on a man and walked away - this is probably why ur weekend felt rough.
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We were standing around the bed of a dying friend.
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damn now that makes me sounds toxic af. safe afterlife travels....
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NP. Luckily I have his contact info and I do plan to talk to him on the phone about it when all this is over.
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Better watch this comedy series of Ricky Gervais: After Life https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8398600 Amazing one.
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36 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 6 May
Shaking my head. Stackers.... gotta love um. Someone was gonna say it.
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I wouldn't have it any other way😀
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This story perfectly captures the confusion and complexity that everyday investors face in today’s financial landscape, especially as high-profile figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. publicly embrace Bitcoin as a hedge against inflation and a tool for financial autonomy. The conversation highlights how many people, even those politically engaged or skeptical of traditional finance, are turning to Bitcoin-often through ETFs rather than holding the asset directly-partly influenced by the endorsements and bold policy proposals from leaders like RFK Jr., who has pledged to make Bitcoin a strategic reserve asset for the U.S..
It’s a revealing snapshot of how the mainstream narrative around Bitcoin is shifting, with both political and economic anxieties driving new adoption, sometimes with only a partial understanding of the technology or the difference between owning spot Bitcoin and ETF products. This mix of hope, misinformation, and genuine belief in Bitcoin’s resilience is emblematic of the current moment, as more Americans look for alternatives in uncertain times.
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