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2964 sats \ 29 comments \ @elvismercury 8 May mostly_harmless

Thread 1: I've been (slowly) working my way through The Matter with Things which is a masterpiece.

Thread 2: @siggy47 just posted something about how an "elderly" (in the thread, we're wondering what that means exactly) person got scammed of their btc.

I'm increasingly obsessed with the question of how aware we are of our capacities. The book is exhaustive of examples of people with RH brain damage, or severed corpus collossa, doing absolutely bonkers shit. We (the audience) clearly see that they are insane. The fact that they can sit there talking to the researcher, seemingly rationally, while also being insane, is profoundly disturbing. I want to discuss this more another time.

But back to Siggy's post, and my question: do you know older people in your life who are openly and expressively aware of their declining capabilities? Not a general "I'm getting older and having senior moments" way, but in a "I realize that x is beyond my capacity, and that I can't understand it, even though I used to understand it" way, or something with that flavor?

I can't think of anything in my own life. The people I know who should say things like this react to their own diminishment with a combination of obliviousness and anger. They duck the issue, which I always took to be willful, but now wonder if they actually cannot do so, if their declining capacity means that they lack the capacity to comprehend the decline.

Examples would be helpful, if you have any.

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182 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 8 May

"I realize that x is beyond my capacity, and that I can't understand it, even though I used to understand it"

This is terrifying enough that most people wouldn't admit it to themselves. I'm still relatively young and I think about decline a lot, knowing I'm always getting closer than I have been, and I don't like it.

264 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 8 May

When I was a young lawyer I represented my dad on real estate deals. He had been going deaf for years, but refused to acknowledge it. Once we were at a closing when the party on the other side of the transaction took my dad aside and, in a low voice, asked for a concession my father would never grant. Rather than say "I can't hear you" , he smiled and said sure." I had to step in to correct the misunderstanding. It was embarrassing for him, but not embarrassing enough for him to get a hearing aid.

I hope I learned the lesson he never did.

220 sats \ 0 replies \ @quark 8 May

I am recently thinking a lot about this decline too specially because I'm seeing it in my own family with rapid decline and it is very sad to see. They don't realize. They make the usual jokes about age and such but I'm sure they are not very aware of the extent of the problem. Even simple problems become huge. And it reminds me that while I still feel great I have only a small number of good years left and that is counting that I would not get any other illness.

Make the most of your youth. It goes fast later.

57 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 8 May

It is scary.

The cognitive strain of grad school definitely affected my memory, which I jokingly refer to as grad school giving me brain damage.

131 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 8 May

My father in law, who has the beginnings of dementia, apparently asked my mother in law, "Am I going crazy?", as his memory issues became apparent to him.

He's now been relieved of all financial duties. Our worry is that...he doesn't really have anything else to do. All he did was go through financial emails, and papers, and worry and think about them but...at least it gave him something to do.

One positive is that he could not be scammed anymore. He just couldn't follow their steps. (He has gotten scammed before).

34 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 9 May

I never considered what kind of loss of purpose this could be for people.

It's one thing to be embarrassed about no longer being competent, but feeling useless is a much deeper problem.

129 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 8 May

I can see the decline in myself in many ways, but I can't remember them all right now- senior memory loss!

One I notice regularly reminds me of the George Carlin quote:

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?”

I used to be a fast driver. I drove too fast, got my share of traffic tickets, and was at times a maniac on the road. Now cars zoom past me at what I consider maniacal speed.

135 sats \ 7 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 8 May

Good friend (late 60s) has been scammed out of his life savings (except his house) by online scammers and he is struggling to accept it- they used bitcoin and crypto extensively to cover their tracks.The police here do not have the resources to seriously investigate. I tracked some Bitcoin transactions, part of the scam, to HTX exchange but neither HTX nor the NZ police would help trace the funds further. More recently the scammers demanded a 'final payment' of $20k, which he refused and does not have anyway and they then impersonated a friends facebook profile and extracted from him his home address. They then posed as buyers of things he was selling on facebook marketplace and asked him to arrange shipping via a fake website where they gained his current credit card details and once gain cleaned out his credit card- this time the bank was onto it and called him to check the card use was legit. The scammers are persistent. He now faces having to go offline or seriously reduce online use. They now have his home address. He is understandably concerned.

Another friends father (93) calls her from the ATM to ask her birth date as its the pin number for his bankcard. Hes been taking out large sums of cash lately but family don't know what for.

Seems to be a lot of it going on.

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury OP 9 May

Wow, that's heartbreaking. I have had so many talks with my parents in an attempt to stave off something like this. It makes you realize how delicate it all is, and the limits of what you can and can't control.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 9 May

Yes, these scammers are becoming very skilled in finding and targeting their victims. When you think of how increasingly we conduct more and more of our lives and financial transactions online it is a huge problem.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Signal312 8 May

Sheesh that's sad.

I've heard similar stories, but that's really bad...

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 8 May

Yes, he was retired but now faces going back to work and or selling house to downsize. Since the last scammers attack I really worry if he sells house or gets more money they will be lurking to scam it off him. How do you get rid of them? You need to completely delete all tracing data and they are clearly very cunning, persistent and skilled at what they do. They know the law is unlikely to catch them. Online scamming is a major growth industry.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Signal312 8 May

Are they always contacting him on the phone? Could their phone numbers be blocked, and only known numbers (in the contact list) be allowed?

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @Solomonsatoshi 8 May

They did previously mostly use phone contact as I understand it but using multiple numbers which appeared to originate from multiple origins. I don't know how they do this but apparently it can be done. More recently I think the contact was mostly via them posing as others via email and facebook messaging. In the more recent events I think there was also some contact was via his phone as he mentioned the need to change his number to prevent the same happening again. Screening incoming calls is a good idea if it can be done might be one of the ways of reducing the risk, but as the facebook attack shows they have multiple vectors via which they can approach an established target.

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 9 May

Yeah, it sucks. I hope there's a special place in hell for these folks.

I know on Andoid, there's a way to limit phone calls to ONLY those on the contact list. Prune the contact list, and you're good.

reply on another page

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 8 May

My dad is aware that he can’t read and follow mathematical writing and arguments the way he used to be able to.

I don’t know that he’s realized that his cognition has taken a similar turn in most areas.

101 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 8 May

It is very hard for people to accept their diminished state. I think they see it as giving up. I am currently dealing with this issue with my dad but more on the physical side of things than on the mental side you speak of. He refuses to give up the outdoor chores he always handled like mowing the lawn, trimming the hedges etc. We only live 7 minutes away so I told him I am happy to come over and do this stuff, and he can hang out with the kids. He still refuses. If he knows we are coming for a visit, he will complete the chores before we arrive.

Stubborn maybe. In denial maybe. More likely he doesn't want to feel useless.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury OP 9 May

It's easy to understand why people would want to avoid it. I tell myself that reality is there regardless, you might as well open your eyes to it. But given the nature of the delusion, how would I know if I was living by that maxim?

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @wolfsbane 9 May

My girlfriend’s uncle has been showing clear signs of decline losing track of basic conversations, forgetting how to manage his finances. What's hard is watching how deeply it affects her. She remembers who he was, and now he seems like a version of himself that doesn't know what's missing. It’s heartbreaking and it hits home how terrifying it must feel to lose awareness of your own mind. This thread really brings that into focus. We're not ready for how common this is going to become.

54 sats \ 1 reply \ @BallLightning 8 May

Is it beneficial to you to be aware of such thing?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury OP 9 May

I think so. But I'm somebody who generally wants the truth, under the (possibly delusional) idea that I have some agency in things. The less that becomes true, maybe the more sensible it will be to be in denial.

27 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 8 May

all comes down to detailed questioning, in order to know what the people are capable of; one method is a checklist of ADL's (Activities of Daily Living): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470404/

the trick is to make the questioning sound like a casual conversation; "getting old (i.e. in chronological years)" is not a valid excuse - traditionally the older ladies and gentlemen were the wiser members of the tribe; inflation makes our elders consume garbage, unknowingly or ignorantly

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @SilkyNinja 8 May

I get the impression it’s good to consider this phenomenon in a nonlinear way - “the cyclops” as an archetype or trope is on my mind, and in Futurama, the pilot of the delivery ship is a cyclopian woman.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Thisdaystacker 8 May

Senility could be a declining factor in Seniors and their inability to even comprehend the fact that they're actually senile makes the whole situation difficult for their caretakers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 8 May

I don't know anything.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lazy_AMA 8 May

Even the author is confused. How would you say "You can't think of anything in your life" as a bitcoiner? Hahahahah 🤣

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lazy_AMA 8 May

That's for fun though, don't take it personal.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @wolfsbane 9 May

Powerful question if cognitive decline erodes self awareness, maybe some people truly can’t grasp their own diminishing abilities. I've seen frustration and denial in older relatives, but almost never open acknowledgment. It’s less denial, more like a loss of the tools to even notice.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @wolfsbane 9 May

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