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23 sats \ 0 replies \ @hgw39 7 May \ parent \ on: Quick questions about OP_RETURN? Quick answers here. bitcoin
Thanks Murch.
What is the source of this line please:
"Audience are too dumb to understand this”. But most of us can appreciate: only 7 OP_RETURN larger than 83 byte this year, and the rest millions are <= 83 bytes. "
Hi Murch.
Your answers here have really helped me understand more about OP_RETURNs in general, and this issue, so thanks.
Here are my questions.
Given the 3 ways data can be embedded in the blockchain, how effective against each of these methods are the actions proposed in the PR?
My understandings are:
- Writing data to a taproot leaf script. Lifting the OP_RETURN limit will not provide an attractive alternative for people embedding data, for any data above 143 bytes. So not effective against most arbitrary data.
- Data in the output script using the OP_RETURN op code. Lifting the limit seeks to encourage more data to be embedded using OP_RETURNs, as the current limit may prevent some data from being propagated around the network as it becomes non standard. (But can be worked around by going to a miner out of band)
- Embedding data using fake public keys or hashes. Does raising the OP_RETURN limit offer an incentive for this kind of embedded data? Does it become cheaper using OP_RETURN or not?
I'm trying to focus on the logic and incentives of the proposal, not the emotion and blah blah.
And one final question, why is this company Citrea being cited so much in this PR and discussion? I see Core Devs linking to their Whitepaper in the PR and I wonder why a single company's use case and requirements are being considered to heavily in this discussion. Shouldn't that be a non factor for a Bitcoin Core PR?
Anyway, thanks for helping out with these questions.
With all due respect, I don't think you've answered the question.
Your make valid points for the justification of the increase in the limit and explain that individual nodes may be harming themselves, default settings are the norm and the transactions will be propagated anyway. You've even pointed out that the ability to configure this setting was debated anyway and some consider that it shouldn't have been added.
But the question asks something different, something I am wondering also. As a sovereign node runner in an open permissionless network, why does this PR propose to remove the ability for me to configure the mempool settings on my own node?
If I make a decision that harms myself and doesn't make any difference to the propagation of transactions, isn't that for me to decide and bear the consequences of?
It's like re-using addresses, commonly accepted as poor for privacy but there is no rule in the protocol that permits it. It's up to me to understand and accept the consequences.
The government has changed since Covid, technically towards the right but not much has changed. Just different people squealing about different things.
New Zealand's biggest problem is apathy and lack of leadership, and I don't mean this from a political point of view, society in general. Life was generally OK here for most people for a long time, now it's not.
There's a line that Peter Jackson is credited with many years ago, "Kiwis often show up a day late and a dollar short", when he was asked about how NZ engages on the world stage, and I think that still applies to this day.
Most of us live here because we were born here and our families are here, the landscape here is great and so are the people.
New Zealand runs the fiat property ponzi as well as anyone, regardless of which party is in power.
There are some interesting initiatives and companies in the Bitcoin space here, let's call it small but active. Here's a summary from last year:
https://kiwibitcoinguide.org/articles-and-guides/bitcoin-in-new-zealand-in-2024-the-year-in-review/
I had a similar instance of this (not with a gift card though) last year on Robosats and it made me aware that you can potentially be scammed by a seller. In my instance I had sent the fiat but the seller claimed I hadn't so we opened a dispute.
The coordinator adjudicated and ruled in my favour, as I had clear evidence of the fiat being sent and I got my sats.
But it made me realize that if the coordinator and seller collaborate they could scam you, so we're really relying on the coordinator.
Although you can't recognize a seller by their bot identity, you can identify them by their Wise or Revolut tag if you're using those payment methods.
After this incident I was in another trade with the same coordinator and when I got to the send Fiat stage the Revolut tag was the same as the seller who tried to scam me previously so I cancelled the trade and forfeited my bond.
Robosats is still me preferred P2P method (especially now as no one in my community wants to sell sats P2P right now for some reason!) but since this happened I limit the size of my buys and be mindful of who I am trading with (coordinators and sellers).
It's a jungle out there :)
We had a similar article in MSM here in New Zealand a few months ago, to which we wrote and published a response here:
Same old arguments but we responded to each one and invited the author to meetups but he didn't respond.
https://kiwibitcoinguide.org/articles-and-guides/bitcoin-has-failed-in-its-central-task-a-response/
If you are serious about running a node I would recommend learning some command line tools. It's not that hard and there are a lot of good resources out there to help.
I started running a node 3 years ago and had no command line experience at all but have learnt as I go. Command line is not really programming, it's just commands entered in a way that the OS reads them logically.
Some of the issues you explain below can be easily diagnozed yourself in command line, like the bitcoin-cli getnetworkinfo command noted below. Editing the bitcoin.conf file was really intimidating at first, but once you practice and understand what you're doing it's pretty easy.
I use this YouTube channel as my go to source for Node and command line tools:
https://www.youtube.com/@MinistryofNodes
You can even setup one on one sessions with Ketan to help you further if you need.
3 years on, I feel a lot more confident running my node (I now run two).
Good luck.
I have been running a LN node for 1 year now and the answers to your question do depend on what type of node you run and what you're using it for. My goal was to learn Lightning, self hosting and also be able to make my own LN payments in a sovereign way through my own node.
The initial investment of time was to research the different options available for running a node and decide on which was for me. As my goal is learning I went the hands on method of purchasing a server, setting up Ubuntu on it them running both Bitcoin Core and LND on that. Cost was about USD$350 for a used Dell Optiplex.
I followed the Ministry of Nodes guides on YouTube for that. There was quite a bit of time required to go through and set it all up, say up to 10 hours or so.
Once it was running the other costs have only been to fund the channel and as my purpose was to host my own payments, I did this with people I know personally who already run nodes. They helped my out by opening channels to me, then we rebalanced.
A year into this the main costs in time are to update the software packages when required, which only happens every few months.
Monetary costs required have been minimal, just funding or rebalancing channels when I run out of liquidity on my side. This costs as much as you need to spend, usually I keep a couple of hundred thousand sats in liquidity on my side of channels so I can spend as I need.
It does depend on what your goals are, if there's someone you know who's running a node they can be a great help so I would recommend hooking up with someone in your community if you can.
Hope this helps and good luck.
You are right, the easiest way to buy Bitcoin is from another person directly, peer to peer. That is what money is for, trading with other people, and it happens all the time at Bitcoin meetups every week all over the world.
Just put the word out in your community and you will be surprised at the results. But be sure to respect privacy and don't ask any annoying questions and everything will work just fine.
I wrote an article 18 months ago on some of the other way to buy KYC free sats too:
#219309
This is a great guide, thank you. After researching the different options I've been using Robosats for about 2 years now and it's my preferred no KYC option (behind Peer to Peer in person of course).
A few months ago I actually went through the disputes process on a Robosats purchase, as the seller claimed I didn't send the fiat but I had. In the end the coordinator ruled in my favour, but it made me aware of the vulnerability here if the coordinator and the seller were working against you.
I see a few coordinators were removed in a recent update and I would like to know why, as one of them was the coordinator during my disputed trade.
Robosats is the best P2P platform in my opinion too.
I wrote an article 18 months ago to summarize the main options here:
#219309
Thank you. We'd love to see you down for a visit, but make sure you time it to line up with a Bitkiwi event. Whenever we have international visitors at Bitkiwi they always tell us they're the best meetups they've ever been to!
Thank you. It's been a great year, imagine what we'll be talking about in 12 months from now! Don Brash as RBNZ governor and Roger Douglas as Finance Minister were the stewards of the 3% inflation target and we were the first country in the world to adopt it.
This is a great resource, thanks. I've followed Ketan's guide and am running my node now and noticed the updates to Core coming.
Is this the same process to follow for updating other services on the node such as the Fulcrum server? I have to update this now also and have been wondering how to do it.
Thanks.