Question for everyone who runs a lightning node \ stacker news ~lightning

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Question for everyone who runs a lightning node

2346 sats \ 28 comments \ @frostdragon 11h lightning

Although I'd consider myself a relative lightning beginning, I understand the how the lightning network works and how to get a node running, which, in a nutshell, looks like the following steps:

You need to set up a bitcoin node with a connected wallet
You need to set up a lightning node and lightning wallet, which is connected to the bitcoin node
You need to "fund" the lightning wallet with the connected bitcoin wallet
Then you need to pay to establish a channel to another lightning node that's well connected.

The final part of the step that I've never pulled the trigger on is actually funding the lightning wallet and getting connected to the network because it doesn't exactly seem like a "set it and forget it" scenario.

My question is:

If you're running a lightning node, how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?

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238 sats \ 9 replies \ @SimpleStacker 10h

You need to set up a bitcoin node with a connected wallet

You don't actually need to set up a bitcoin node to use lightning. Some self custodial lightning wallets use remote node services to interact with the Bitcoin network

You need to set up a lightning node and lightning wallet, which is connected to the bitcoin node

Like I said, setting up a lightning node/wallet doesn't require you to run your own bitcoin node. (See above)

You need to "fund" the lightning wallet with the connected bitcoin wallet

Yes the lightning wallet will need to get funds from somewhere. But it doesn't have to come from a "connected" bitcoin wallet. It can come from any transaction on bitcoin.

Then you need to pay to establish a channel to another lightning node that's well connected.

Yes, though it isn't a requirement for the lightning node you make a channel with to be well connected, it's just useful.

If you're running a lightning node, how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?

Depends what your goal is. For simple sending/receiving on Stacker.News with Alby Desktop, it's almost zero maintenance. If you want to route payments for a fee and be profitable, that will take quite some work in terms of channel balancing and fee setting.

30 sats \ 3 replies \ @charonnakamoto 2h

Depends what your goal is. For simple sending/receiving on Stacker.News with Alby Desktop, it's almost zero maintenance.

I have also re-started running an LN node in Jan 2025(I experimented with it a couple of years back and got fed up with channel management), and it is quite a bit of work as you need to rebalance the channels to receive sats even for private channels. Setting up a channel with Stacker News is straightforward, but you can only send sats through that. If you want to receive them, you need to rebalance the channels by a loop-out facilitated by Lightning Terminal or by pushing out Sats using ThunderHub(less preferred option). I cannot do this on Alby Hub. This is my understanding; if there is a simpler way to do that, please let me know. In summary, I would say the amount of work to maintain private channels is tens of hours of investment in the initial stages, but once set up, it should be an hour or two every quarter or six months, depending on how much you deplete the sats in your channels. This is assuming your node doesn't crash, haha

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 2h

I tend to rebalance my channel just by buying gift cards from Bitrefill. No need for any loops that way

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 1h

I guess now you can also buy cowboy credits. This has the dual effect of giving you CC to spend and increasing your ability to receive sats.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nym 2h

That’s probably the easiest way

30 sats \ 4 replies \ @frostdragon OP 9h

Yeah I'm aware there's custodial lightning 😂

I'm specifically curious - if you run a node, what does that time/money investment look like from month to month?

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 9h

what does that time/money investment look like

None.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 9h

No, I am not referring to custodial lightning. I am referring to non-custodial lightning wallet where you control your own keys. It still doesn't require you to run your own bitcoin node.

Money investment is only the on-chain transaction fees to set up the channel and any routing fees for pay when using LN.

Time investment is almost zero once you have your channels set up. Time investment only necessary if you want to run a profitable routing node.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon OP 9h

Ah gotcha - I misunderstood. Yeah I'm aware that exists as well - wasn't asking about those though. TBH I'm kind of skeptical of non-custodial lightning wallets where you control your own keys as a long term solution - I've seen several app devs just completely ditch that headache after a while...

I think "trying to make a profitable routing node" is probably where I've gotten confused about the cost thing.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 9h

True, long run app support is still pretty shaky. But I think it's the best "middle" solution since running a full bitcoin node is gonna be a hefty lift for most people, and custodial lightning has a lot of rugging / regulatory risk.

And yeah, the time investment and cost for routing is mostly related to rebalancing and liquidity. I also think you need to make pretty big channels in order to route profitably... that's a lot of sats you put at risk.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 9h

I bought a Start9 server, installed bitcoin core, installed lnd, then I installed Lightning Terminal and connected it to Zeus via LNC, added some bitcoin, then opened a Tor channel to SN. Later I installed Alby Hub to connect it to SN.

how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?

Once I had issues with my Tor channels, and wasn't home, so had to ssh in to restart Tor. Other than that, the only real maintenance is updating software with a click and monitoring my channels in Zeus to make sure they aren't imbalanced. At some point I'll probably automate swaps for keeping the channel balanced and I can avoid the channel checking part.

In the average month, I'd say it's about 5 minutes of work and whatever the electricity is in terms of money.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @hgw39 9h

I have been running a LN node for 1 year now and the answers to your question do depend on what type of node you run and what you're using it for. My goal was to learn Lightning, self hosting and also be able to make my own LN payments in a sovereign way through my own node.

The initial investment of time was to research the different options available for running a node and decide on which was for me. As my goal is learning I went the hands on method of purchasing a server, setting up Ubuntu on it them running both Bitcoin Core and LND on that. Cost was about USD$350 for a used Dell Optiplex. I followed the Ministry of Nodes guides on YouTube for that. There was quite a bit of time required to go through and set it all up, say up to 10 hours or so.

Once it was running the other costs have only been to fund the channel and as my purpose was to host my own payments, I did this with people I know personally who already run nodes. They helped my out by opening channels to me, then we rebalanced.

A year into this the main costs in time are to update the software packages when required, which only happens every few months.

Monetary costs required have been minimal, just funding or rebalancing channels when I run out of liquidity on my side. This costs as much as you need to spend, usually I keep a couple of hundred thousand sats in liquidity on my side of channels so I can spend as I need.

It does depend on what your goals are, if there's someone you know who's running a node they can be a great help so I would recommend hooking up with someone in your community if you can.

Hope this helps and good luck.

63 sats \ 4 replies \ @Wumbo 11h

how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?

Money: basic zero just a small about for electrical and bandwidth

Time: I could spend close to zero time but as a hobby I often spend a hour a week trying to do some re-balancing.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @frostdragon OP 9h

So am I just misunderstanding the whole "pay to open a channel to a popular node" thing? Are you able to send and receive payments anywhere?

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Wumbo 9h

I overly simplified my original answers.

There will be an on chain transaction (which will require a fee) to open a channel.

This video help me understand the basics of the lightning network. Some info might be dated but the basics should still be valid.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon OP 9h

Is that a one-time fee, or do you pay regularly? Also, out of curiosity, what do you use your node for?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Wumbo 9h

It is a one-time on chain fee.

There might be a routing fee depending on which other lighting nodes your payment is trying to make a payment to. But the routing fee is usually a lot less then onchain fee, which is one of the main advantage of the lighting network.

I use my node to withdraw my custodian sats to. "Not your Keys, Not your Coins"

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 11h

Is kind of wrong question. OK seems that you understand the basics of how to run a LN node, but you still have to answer these simple questions:

Why do you want to run a LN node?
What type of hardware you will use?
What type of software you could use?
What type of node do you want to run (public or private)?
To which node peers you should connect?
How you will manage the channels liquidity?

And all the answers to those you can find them in this guide: https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/managing-lightning-node-liquidity-en.html

how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?

The only fees you spend are the fees to open a channel. The rest is just your way of spending your sats. Nobody is taking them from you.

because it doesn't exactly seem like a "set it and forget it" scenario.

It is like that. But again depends what type of node you are running (public or private) and what type of channel you got (LSP, inbound, p2p, with your own funds from onchain...).

So again is always starting with the most important question: FOR what do you want to run a LN node. Are many different answers and results.

More guides about running LN nodes here: https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes-en.html

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @frostdragon OP 9h

There's a lot of great info there, but you're answering a question I didn't ask ;)

I'd love to know what you use your lightning node for and how much time and monetary expenditure that requires.

Once I know what I'd like my setup to be, I'll make a separate post to get advice from the community, and you can feel free to help me fill in the gaps there.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 9h

I answered exactly the question you asked: "how much time and money per month do you spend to keep this fully functional?" And I said is the WRONG question.

And that question cannot be answered just with "x amount". That's why I asked you other questions and give you more resources to THINK about.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @frostdragon OP 9h

I'll try again only because I really am curious, lol

What would YOU - DarthCoin himself - ballpark your average time/money investment is to run YOUR SPECIFIC lightning node? Bonus question is, what are the things you use YOUR lightning node for?

That's my question 😬👍

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 9h

ZERO

I wrote so many guides that I am getting tired... people still ignore them. Here some of the LN nodes that require ZERO "investment" as you call it (wrongfully).

what are the things you use YOUR lightning node for?

pay my fucking beers and rent and other expenses.. practically living on Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @frostdragon OP 9h

Ok sweet, thanks!

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @000w2 9h

Depends on what you are using the node for?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon OP 9h

I'm specifically curious to hear real-life answers from people who run lightning nodes, so I supposed if that's you, you could include that info!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @000w2 8h

I use my node for payments and zaps, no routing. So I only have a couple of channels.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gbks 1h

I've been running Umbrel on a Raspberry Pi for some years and it runs super stable and requires no overhead. I connect to it with Zeus for payments on the go (that part is a bit shaky sometimes due to Tor). It's a nice setup.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sasasuina 4h

I'm learning about Lightning and hope to run a 24/7 online node on my server one day. Here's what I found about the server costs.

Chapter 5 of the book Mastering the Lightning Network mentions that the cost would be $20–$40 per month.

Virtual private server (VPS) and cloud computing services such as Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, Amazon Web Services (AWS), or DigitalOcean are quite affordable and can be set up very quickly. A Lightning node can be hosted for between $20 and $40 per month on such a service.

However, according to my own calculations, it would cost more.

I plan to run lightning node software (LND or Core Lightning), and Bitcoin Core. These programs have modest CPU and memory requirements—2 CPUs and 4GB of RAM are sufficient. The biggest cost is storage, as you need to store the entire Bitcoin blockchain data, which is approximately 630GB as of now, and grows by about 60GB per year. The Lightning Network itself requires very little storage space; reserving a few dozen GBs is sufficient.

For instance, we can choose AWS t3.medium (2 vCPU, 4GB RAM), which is $40 per month. And we can choose 1TB SSD (gp3) for storage, which is $100 per month. If you need a public IP, there will be another $4 per month. So the total server cost is $144 per month.

I don't know whether there is a way to avoid the storage of Bitcoin blockchain. Or maybe there are some sort of paid service? If we can reduce that cost to for example $10 per month, then the total cost would be $54 per month.