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The Problem

I have been here a while, and have grown very fond of SN. Whether it’s logical or not, I am very invested in seeing it grow and prosper. I have written and read many posts like this in the past, asking for this or that innovation or improvement. Some eventually are implemented. Some aren’t. Some have been promised, but we’re still waiting.
SN was sidetracked as a result of potential legal problems which forced a change to non-custodial wallets. It took a lot of work. Many stackers left. Others are still complaining. There’s no doubt it created friction which has hampered growth of the site. In my opinion, non-custodial wallets are a good thing in the long run.
Meanwhile, prominent bitcoiners have shunned or openly attacked SN for whatever reason. There’s not much that can be done about that.
Territories were a big innovation. They seemed so promising. They were rolled out a few months before the Samourai bullshit. They were losing propositions from day one. I don’t blame @k00b and company for that. The timing was unfortunate, and they’ve done a hell of a job making a huge transition.
As a founder of four territories, I know the frustration. Lately, though, I’m feeling that I am also responsible for the slow growth of my territories. Rather than wait around for some magic innovation that makes them profitable, maybe I should take a different approach. I will leave the marketing of SN to the founders, and spread the word in a more decentralized way.

The @grayruby Way

If you have been around for a while, you might remember that @grayruby started Stacker Sports before territories even existed. He didn’t wait around or ask permission. He started posting his sports posts right in the meta territory, if I recall. When territories became available, he hit the ground running. He had a plan and a vision, which paid off. I’m pretty sure he’s just getting started. Now of course we all can’t be him. He’s a smart, motivated guy with good ideas and plenty of motivation. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t use him as a model.
@2grayruby is generous, both by zapping posts in his territory and creating an environment where sports fans can succeed on their own. It’s good business, sure, but it also spreads sats around and will eventually teach sports fans about bitcoin. He will prosper, his best territory posters will prosper, Stacker News will eventually prosper, and bitcoin adoption will grow.
Territories represent specific interests. I have been one of those clamoring for sub territories, but considering the size of SN right now, they don’t make sense. Rather, I think founders should encourage posters to claim their own piece of existing territories. Here’s where individual interests and passions can come into play.

My Harebrained Idea

I have thought about this a lot, because I have a few quirky interests and hobbies that I would like to see regularly discussed on Stacker News- astronomy, ancient roman coin collecting, african cichlid keeping. Reading this you may think I’m a quirky guy, but let me tell you, there are entire website forums that are filled with people talking about this stuff.
I have been a huge fan of the Grateful Dead for over 40 years. They’re not for everyone, but there are a certain group of aging hippies (looking in the mirror) who are obsessed. Rather than wishing for a ~deadhead sub territory of ~music, if I had more time I would just start writing a regular little Grateful Dead post in the music territory. It won’t grab much attention (believe me, I know), but maybe it will attract one or two stackers. Then, I would try to craft a really good, insightful post about a live performance, take my time, do my homework, then post the SN link over here:
Someone will certainly click the link.
Interested deadheads will now be on stacker news. Once they arrive, you can gradually explain the idea of earning sats. Of course you can post to nostr and twitter too, but I like the idea of targeted audiences.
It’s kind of a decentralized way to grow your influence , earn sats, grow the territory, grow Stacker News, and grow bitcoin adoption. Earning sats for bullshitting about the Grateful Dead will be a dream come true for some people.
I hope some stackers take me up on this idea in my territories. I promise to support you with sats, replies, and visibility when practical through pinned posts.
I can envision stackers starting acoustic blues guitar blogs, hip hop blogs, a Beatles blog, etc. For my Books And Articles territory, I can see poetry blogs, science fiction blogs, comic book blogs, children's books blogs, etc. Some will catch on. Some won’t. It seems worthwhile to give it a shot, though. The internet is filled with communities with sometimes ridiculously niche interests. Maybe we can bring some here. If successful, it will grow bitcoin adoption.
36 sats \ 2 replies \ @orto 3h
All of them are very important clarifications. But if we are going to create a territory, we would like to estimate how much time and effort we would spend and how much sats we would earn in return. Although the spiritual satisfaction of the job is important, it takes a back seat compared to the sats to be earned. As a result, how much sats do you earn from your each territory? (It's not a very polite question, but what to do?)😉
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 3h
The nice thing about Stacker News is all the data for each territory is available for anyone to see. Just click "top" on the home screen, then scroll down to territories. You can find all the stats there.
I hope I made it clear that I'm not saying creating territories is a good investment. We might be nuts trying this. What I'm suggesting is that individual stackers help themselves build a reputation in a niche they have a passion for, while helping founders, SN, and bitcoin adoption at the same time.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @orto 2h
🧡🧡🧡
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My take on SN is that it's most valuable commodity is the technology platform enabling a P2P versions of Substack. It's already 80% of the way there.
For the remaining 20%, I think it needs to implement custom domains and user controlled paywalls. I'm sure I'm missing other stuff too, but those are the two that jump out.
I'd probably recommend that they spin off another brand, like Stacker Pages, since "stacker.news" doesn't sound like a blog platform. 30% sybill fees would have be removed for P2P zaps on Substack like pages. SN could generate revenue off hosting fees, probably.
I think as a message board, the growth potential is limited. I just don't think there is that much demand for text based message platforms. SN is already about as active as a fairly active subreddit, which I think is about the maximum potential that can currently be achieved in its current iteration.
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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 16h
Oehhh... This. I like this!
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Do you see substack lacking p2p functionality as its main problem, if in fact you see substack as having any problems?
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As someone who likes writing about technical topics, a huge drawback of Substack is that it doesn't support native Markdown (last I checked anyway), which is a bit crazy to me.
SN's markdown functionality is sophisticated and advanced, allowing for easy embedding of media and equations and tables, which is great for technical writers. It's definitely an advantage they'd have over Substack right out of the gate.
Beyond that, I've never used Substack---precisely because of the lack of Markdown support---so I can't evaluate its other functionality. But in my experience, platforms like Wordpress make content management really slow and cumbersome. Since everything in SN is native markdown, management is actually quite easier, so I imagine that SN could have an advantage in its UI/UX as well.
Lastly, "Stacker Pages" could allow users to automatically crosspost their substack like articles to stacker.news, so you'd have a built in audience right away, known for their generosity in zapping.
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I guess it's perspective. This is off topic, but I didn't know what markdown was until finding SN. I love it now. I have a hunch most writers outside the technical field may not be used to markdown. That's beside the point if your vision of SN is a place for technical writing. I was thinking its use case was more broad when I posted.
BTW, I see your point about the name - stacker news
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I think that would be its most competitive advantage to start with (along with P2P).
It would probably have to broaden its interface to accommodate non-technical people, but that being said Markdown isn't too difficult to learn. (Reddit also uses native markdown, it just has more formatting buttons for bold, italics, links, etc.)
I definitely would envision it as a platform for broad topics for people who want native Bitcoin P2P support, and not want to limit it to technical topics.
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I didn't mean to say it is difficult to learn. I agree it's great. I'm just guessing a huge percentage of writers don't even know it exists, so having it wouldn't be a big competitive advantage over sub stack.
I also only discovered what markdown was when I started using SN this year. And about the name, I have to agree that it could be more in line with the proposal, since we have few news here that are not links from other platforms.
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When I began here a year ago, I even didn't know what 'Markdown' stood for. But I learnt along the way and I don't think it's too technical because of I can learn anyone can.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 6h
I hope many territory founders and stackers take this idea to heart. It's a clear call to action for distributed growth, and I think it holds immense potential. Well said!
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172 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 20h
This is great. I agree. Maybe targeting big platforms like reddit and twitter aren't the right path but instead to get people interested in more niche topics. Bitcoin was niche at one time after all and v4v is still pretty niche so I think it aligns well. I also think it would contribute to the overall quality of content on SN and maybe bring it back to its roots a little bit where it was more about the content and community than the zaps. We all love the zaps, I am not saying they should go but there are easier and faster ways to gain a bunch of sats than spending hundreds of hours building a presence on SN.
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I started thinking about this when @realBitcoinDog posted his success story of referring a Pokémon enthusiast.
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@siggy47 I’m also trying to recruit independent content creators who already make their own content!
Maybe I can get these two fantasy football guys on ~Stacker_Sports if they see the sats they’re leaving on the table. Or the audience at least! #1072169
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I was really happy to get @ProofOfWorkFitness to SN and your territory. We need more like him.
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536 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 19h
You guys don't get it. That Bitcoin exists at all, much less P2P paid + tipped Bitcoin forums... is downright remarkable.
The "state" is overwhelmingly hostile to Bitcoin becoming transactional money. It seriously exists in some kind of gray area.
Every transaction, every 5 cent 'tip' over Lightning is a taxable event, and you guys think that is some kind of accident? The state tolerates Bitcoin as a "speculative commodity" as long as Blackrock/Fidelity custodies it for you...
Custodying Bitcoin yourself and spending it on groceries, gas, tacos, day to day expenses, paying for your coffees in the morning... the State is OVERWHELMINGLY hostile to.
I think the unsaid dare unspoken "fear" in Washington (much less Brussels) is that Bitcoin starts to undermine national currencies when people use it instead of the state-controlled fiat.
If people largely saved in Bitcoin, and spent it day-to-day who the fuck would buy government bonds? What would happen to interest rates, much less the government ability to print money or control monetary policy and all the tremendous influence that bestows?
Square/Block has as much as said this, that they are running up against legal/regulatory walls when it comes to actually bringing Bitcoin payments mainstream. Governments are totally opposed to it.
Stackers live in such a bubble YES Bitcoin is superior to fiat however there is tremendous opposition to its success outside of being a 'speculative security' and governments outright reserve (they think) the right to control and mandate monetary-policy.
We have private sector companies and industries, private sector research and investment... government does NOT want private sector money to compete with!
God bless the Stackers and Stacker News in general. That it exists AT ALL is remarkable don't downplay the tremendous accomplishment that there IS a Stacker News when it wasn't even contemplated 15 years ago... and Bitcoin still faces tremendous opposition to being used as money by government.
The road is long and arduous but it will win eventually.
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This comment could be a post. Overall you make an excellent point, but you don't need any permission to use your sats wherever you want.
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This is great observation. I'm pretty sure I can bring in some dumb fiat or Gold minded people from India in here by continuously hitting the love for Cricket of 1.5 billion people. I'm not waiting but I'm patient enough to see SN prosper. See, like I've already told @grayruby that once sub-territories will be a reality, ~~Cricket is gonna be mine. But now I think, I should start pushing it even before we reach the milestone.
Also, I believe SN is pretty much making a gradual incline towards one of the best communities for various niches. Still a long way to go, but it'll reach there.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 19h
I thought of you and cricket when I first thought about this. I envisioned you writing a regular article discussing teams, players, etc, and posting links in cricket forums.
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Thanks. TBH, I've been doing it, posting now and then on Nostr and twitter. But you're definitely right that I should Target Cricket forums. I'll start doing it more now.
I won't lie here that I had a very broad vision when I started CricZap or other Cricket pools, but often it seems like SN is too much aligned on the subject of Bitcoin (which I believe isn't wrong in any way), but I also want to see that it provides ample space and visibility to other niches. The discoverability of 'other SN' is really a challenge.
Maybe a little bit tweaking with the current design might do it. But like you I too wanna leave it to SN team and will do what is in my control.
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184 sats \ 0 replies \ @claos545 14h
Man, this hit home. I’ve felt that same frustration watching SN slow down, seeing promising stuff like territories struggle, and kinda just hoping something big would fix it. But you’re spot on: it’s not gonna happen top-down. We gotta build from the ground up.
The @grayruby approach works because he didn’t wait he just did it. That’s the playbook. Post about the weird stuff you love. Someone out there cares too. If even one person shows up, that’s the start of a micro-community.
Honestly, coin collecting and cichlids sound way more fun than another LN drama thread. Post that stuff. Make noise. SN’s small enough that one person can still shape a corner of it.
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Just love stacker news and long live stacker news ❤️
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I gotta hand it to you, you're a born optimist, but that optimism sometimes keeps your feet from staying on the ground. This business model for social media ain't gonna attract many people, because they can get the same thing for free somewhere else.
I think the first move right now is to lower the rent for the territories, and the owners of those territories need to lower the prices for posts and comments. That's just my 5 sats on the subject!
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You might be right, but I'm not sure I get what you mean when you say having to pay as opposed to getting something for free. Do you mean the posting fee will prevent success?
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Pretty much. I tried to get a bunch of people to join SN, but it never worked. They all said the same thing: "You're crazy! You think I'm gonna pay just to post and comment?" I tried my best to explain why you have to pay, but I could never convince anyone.
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I'm surprised you find paying to post being the issue, at least in bitcoiner-land the bigger issue I've come across is people not knowing how to use lightning or not being willing to set up a wallet.
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I don't think it's the issue, it's more like just one of the issues. I'm telling you this from my experience trying to get people into SN, people who are new to Bitcoin. It's wild to me that you haven't heard anyone else say the same.
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33 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 19h
i've definitely heard it from non-bitcoiners, but I also haven't put as much effort into onboarding them. I kinda assume that learning about bitcoin in order to use SN is going to be too much of an ask.
In fact there are billions of people who still don't know what Bitcoin is!
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Paying to post and comment seems fair to me, if someone likes your comment they'll zap you and the rewards they give you at the end of the day. I don't know, that's my humble opinion.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @LAXITIVA 13h
I like uprisings
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56 sats \ 1 reply \ @AG 19h
Wow, thank you for sharing your thoughts! We much appreciate here at the ~AGORA, and you know it can be the perfect place for you to discuss and sell your ancient Roman coin collecting hobby. ~collectibles is one of our planned subs, well, if some day will happen!
Not sure you noticed but @plunda recently joined and has probably something to say about coins.
It's true, we need to bring people in from different niches, I totally agree. Not sure how we can do that within the vast land of a marketplace, but we are trying our best to publish contents elsewhere to create awareness and bring people in, meanwhile keeping the territory somehow active.
We still need to learn a lot about community moderation and as you mentioned, we don't have a better place to do it than get inspired in the territories' founders like @grayruby that shine and drive by example.
From our perspective, being in the big platform is a requirement, people look for references and want to see presence to feel SN can be trust. The internet is really wild out there, and I'm still surprised of the kind of niches I find here and there.
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Yes, I have talked to @plunda a few times. He even gave me some sats to experiment with on his site. I haven't used them yet because I know nothing about the coins he sells. I am niche!
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I'm so glad you share your perspective on this excellent platform (Stacker News), which has provided me with so much knowledge since I first arrived and discovered Bitcoin. I get daily feedback from it. I love the idea of forums on various topics; I think it's just a matter of creating the territories and how they develop. I'm grateful to all those who make this possible. May Bitcoin continue to guide us into the future.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 16h
silos and curation 👌 makes sense
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72 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby 20h
You are spot on! SN is still at the size that it's interactions that will bring in new people. Writing posts about things that are interesting to you and sharing them abroad is probably our best bet at attracting new users. Sure, they're going to have to learn how to use lightning, and probably getting set up is going to be painful. The more we can do to help with that the better. But they won't even start down that path unless there's something interesting to read.
What impresses me about SN is that you can get pretty quality interactions with people -- have interesting debates, or get helpful answers, and while a big reason for that is the sats, I think it's also because there are some people here who are weirdly interested in stuff. We need more of those people.
It's the niches that will win us more stackers.
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I totally agree with you.
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Thank you for sharing your wonderful idea.
SN doesn’t need permission. It needs passion instead. Growth comes from action, not waiting. If every stacker shares their niche with sats and heart, we build not just a platform, but a culture. Decentralized evangelism is the true SN spirit.
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Earning sats for bullshitting about the Grateful Dead will be a dream come true
Do it!
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stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.