151 sats \ 15 replies \ @TheBTCManual 31 Dec 2022 \ on: Fiatjaf asks the right questions about stablecoins bitcoin
I think I first had Eth envy with stablecoin, seeing their growth and the liquidity it provided shitcoin projects and how it resonates with people selling them token claims on dollars they can never claim kind of made sense to me at the time.
You hear stories of how people want to get out of their failing currency and use stablecoins and how it become a secondary Eurodollar market and these issuers are creating demand for treasuries in the process.
But as I thought about it and the fact that im not in a dollarised country, I thought what is the point? I have bitcoin to save in as my hedge and I earn in my local currency and my liabilities are in it, no one accepts stablecoins here for anything I need to live so seriously what is the point?
I dont want to save in dollars, losing money less slow isn't appealing, I want something that preserves my purchasing power long-term and is not tied to the will of a government
I think we should leave the stablecoins to the shitcoiners and let them rek themselves. Stablecoins cant be decentralised so let it be that, an on-ramp for exchanges to improve their accounting, the fact that people use it for other things doesn't mean you need to pivot bitcoin in that direction
I think all this stablecoin offerings are a distraction and infantilising to people, like oh you shouldn't get bitcoin, you're too stupid to use it, use this thing you kind of understand instead
Nah count me out, and give me sats
OG Bitcoiners (see @DarthCoin and @bitcoiner_since_2013 above) are filthy rich by now so they don't quite get why people don't want to preserve their purchasing power long-term.
But the answer is simple: most people just don't have any purchasing power to preserve. If your savings will only last you a few months then you can't meaningfully think long-term.
the fact that people use it for other things doesn't mean you need to pivot bitcoin in that direction
Already pivoted. Galoy has introduced stablesats to their wallet because people want it. Previously Galoy had to offer insurance against Bitcoin going down in USD terms in order to get any traction in the Beach. Which effectively means that what people actually adopted was a makeshift stablecoin rather than Bitcoin.
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Sorry I am not in Bitcoin to be "filthy rich". I really don't care how much worth in shitcoin fiat my BTC.
I am in this Bitcoinlandia for one and only one thing: FUCK THE BANKS AND GOVS.
Who is in this game for other reasons, will get REKT.
If you acquire BTC just for short term, just as another paypal, is totally wrong.
Use Bitcoin as tool to liberate yourself from the fiat slavery.
FIAT DELENDA EST.
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I really don't care how much worth in shitcoin fiat my BTC.
Yes but do you care how much worth your BTCs are in terms of food and other stuff you can buy with it? Because people from the slums of El Salvador and anywhere else care about that very much.
If you tell somebody whose net worth is only about 4 months of living to go all BTC at $64 and then BTC drops to $16, that poor guy now has only 1 month of living (make adjustments for $/food inflation if you want to). But he liberated himself from the fiat slavery, yay! Would he thank you for the advice though?
Adopting Bitcoin = absorbing the volatility risk. That's just how it is and isn't going to change anytime soon. You have the luxury of reaching for goals high on the Maslow pyramid (such as FUCK THE BANKS AND GOVS) because you have lower levels of the pyramid already covered, that is, you're not going hungry anytime soon, in other words, you can absorb the volatility risk. But many people can't. Stablecoins are for them.
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You see? You are always going back to fiat thinking... You always convert all things in USD shitcoin.
https://www.pricedinbitcoin21.com/
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Lol dude wants to claim his into bitcoin but look how desperately he tries to hold fiat irrationality and defends it, still way to plugged in
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well said
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That scam is called wrapped Bitcoin.
"Hey give us your BTC for a handful of shit they will definitely break just as soon as we get a Producer's moment."
A Producer's moment is like from the Mel Brooks film The Producers. At a certain point these scams become profitable to intentionally tank. This is when the devs do a rug pull because it's more profitable to fail than to succeed.
Every stablecoin will experience this. Insuring against it is absolutely a loss waiting to happen. So these scams will absolutely keep wrecking people every time Bitcoin corrects in price from the halving cycle. So every 4 years.
When each stablecoin breaks, the devs just walk away with all YOUR COLLATERAL. And what is that collateral? Your BTC.
JUST HOLD BTC ON CHAIN IN SELF CUSTODY
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I think you misunderstood what I said. People want stablecoins for the same reasons they want fiat, which makes sense, a USDC is just USD with extra steps.
They don't care if its on ethereum, tron, paypal or liquid, they just want that dollar.
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OK, I indeed misunderstood.
- I think people actually care that it's somewhere out of reach of their gov, even if it's within the reach of the US gov
- I think stablecoin adoption is much better than nothing because the gov can obstruct the value on the road from a bank account to the Bitcoin chain but once the value is on some chain the gov can't really stop it from making its way to Bitcoin. In the case of Liquid, it takes just one atomic swap from USDT to L-BTC.
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Galoy is tiny and insignificant to the greater bitcoin market, you think a few people settling dollar promises backed by a custody provider and bitcoin is really some shining example of a pivot?
Its not, if they cut the feature tomorrow no one would notice, and they're doing it in a country where bitcoin and dollars are the native currency.
What demand for that would there be in other countries, if I can't take my faux dollars to the store? Liquidity is what these people want, bitcoin offers that, because every country in the world has someone willing to trade bitcoin for their native currency and vice versa
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Are you sure that the other countries where native currency is not USD would have no demands for USD stablecoins whatsoever? Is this what we actually see?
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Yes I am, you're picking pockets of use and pretending that is the norm. I live in South Africa and ive been to many African countries and despite how bad the fiat currencies are, you still have to pay taxes in them, you still need to transact in them to purchase goods, services and utilities.
No one is using USD or stablecoins to do that, most people don't even know stablecoins exist while getting your hands on USD physical currency isn't all that easy.
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Why have you switched to comparing local fiat to USD stablecoins? Obviously local fiat wins in adoption! It wins against Bitcoin too.
We were rather comparing Bitcoin vs USD stablecoins. And Bitcoin Beach might be a pocket, but Argentina is too big to be called a pocket. Here, Lebanon is another example bigger than a pocket:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/05/-in-bankrupt-lebanon-locals-mine-bitcoin-and-buy-groceries-with-tether.html
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Stablecoins should be outlawed.
How are they not already? Companies can't just make their own monies. This is already illegal.
Why isn't this being enforced? Because of the lie that shitcoiners have repeated trillions of times: that the shit they make is in any way like Bitcoin. They can be shut down. Bitcoin can't.
All Shitcoins should absolutely be shut down by law enforcement with the same ferociousness as they do bank robbery.
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How are they not already? Companies can't just make their own monies.
Indeed, Facebook's Libra/Diem was strongly prohibited by the gov, and it's a perfectly good question why Circle and Tether had better luck than Facebook.
I believe that the US gov hated Libra's peg to a basked of currencies and disliked Diem's peg to national currencies. US gov wants people around the world to use coins pegged to USD. This way the international demand for USD absorbs some of the money mass that comes out of the printer while providing some goods in services to US for free... I mean, in exchange for the newly printed dollars.
All Shitcoins should absolutely be shut down by law enforcement with the same ferociousness as they do bank robbery.
The gov might not be able to shut down Bitcoin but it's more than able to beat you up. Be careful what you wish for.
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