Gold was used for persistent data storage too \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Gold was used for persistent data storage too

4462 sats \ 28 comments \ @SimpleStacker 6h bitcoin

Bitcoin is money. But Bitcoin is also decentralized, persistent data storage. The current debate between Core and Knots is about the extent to which we should try to prevent using Bitcoin for data storage. Core's position seems to be that it's inevitable, and we should try to minimize the damages. Knot's position seems to be that we should do more to fight arbitrary data on Bitcoin.

There are many debates about this raging on the internet, including here on SN.

As I thought about this, I thought back to the analogy between gold and Bitcoin. "Bitcoin is digital gold," is how it's often described. Then I thought about all the ways gold was used, and it struck me that people have used gold for both monetary exchange and data storage / artistic expression since the dawn of human history.

For example, this image shows a gold tablet from Ancient Persia bearing an inscription about the rule of King Darius:

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apadana_hoard

People used gold to make statues and inscriptions because of gold's properties: it is one of the least reactive metals, and thus will persist over time.

So with that insight, should we not expect that people will want to use Bitcoin for artistic expression and data storage? The very properties that make gold and Bitcoin good money: immutable, persistent, etc, also make it highly sought after as a medium for data.

So if gold could, for millennia, simultaneously be used for monetary exchange and data storage, can't we expect the same of Bitcoin?

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73 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 6h

How refreshing to see a post related to this "debate" that isn't completely stupid.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 5h

I don't know, maybe it is stupid. But I thought it interesting that bitcoin's closest analogy also had this dual role

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5h

Gold actually has several roles. It's used in manufacturing and jewelry but you knew that.

103 sats \ 7 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 6h

Gold can be melted down and reused. Persistent data? Not so much!

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 5h

Well, I don't really understand the inscriptions/runes/ordinals protocols, because I don't give a crap about NFTs. But can you not re-use their UTXOs for regular transactions?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 5h

Same here! Just guessing, but I think so. Still, I guess you can’t really ‘melt’ OP_RETURN data. Data written in gold is only persistent… until someone melts it down.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @028559d218 5h

Since full blocks are full blocks (put that aside from the UTXO set increase)... If full blocks are full of 'data' with fewer and higher-fee transactions... Or with less data ut more smaller transactions that add up to a similar total block reward...

They're both the same from a node's perspective right?

Full blocks of monetary usage take storage. Full blocks of 'data' also take storage. So... what's the difference from the node's perspective?

It's all data storage. I say let the "most valuable" blockspace economics win...

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 5h

From what little I know, I can only see one downside, and that's the faster growth rate of the blockchain. I've said it before, Bitcoin's for whoever wants to use it, spammers and all!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 5h

I doubt that you know "a little" but thanks :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 4h

Comparatively it is better than pretty much anything they had though

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5h

good point

51 sats \ 3 replies \ @justin_shocknet 5h

Still is

17 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 5h

hahahaha LOL good point

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 2h

Wow, those Mitsui Gold archival DVDs have a 24-karat gold reflective layer and are rated to store data for 100y. Given the stability of gold, and the ubiquity of that disc form factor, you could probably read it in 100y too.

That price on Amazon sets us at about 3500s to record 4.7 TB for 100y+ Much cheaper than inscriptions.

One could even store a commitment to that Disc, filesystems contents, and physical media metadata in a slightly larger OP_RETURN, have that OP_RETURN added to a batch withdrawal tx from exchanges (these will always exist and are quite space efficient). Exchanges could physically warehouse gold discs and online (similar to cloud cold storage services).

Exchanges then sell cold warm and hot GOLD ETCHED “inscriptions” with a nice clean prunable onchain outputs. Exchanges then have an ongoing revenue from hosting and charging for outgoing traffic, ideally in sats.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2h

Huge business already in the enterprise, media vaults like Iron Mountain

What's new is old

30 sats \ 3 replies \ @arataa 29m

Sorry for my ignorance, but is this a new debate? Or is this just a continuation of the op_return drama, on which was just a script made in response to certain exploiters that were inserting specific unwanted arbitrary data, as Bitcoin essentially has a binary architecture (01011), and thus these individuals managed to exploit that issue. If I'm mistaken, please correct me.

Well, besides my previous question, I must say that I disagree with your comparison.

Gold is a physical material and thus, it has many different applications. The sole purpose of money is to be a highly salable intermediary good to solve the problem of batter, and prove that you have generated value in order to exchange in a society. Thus, the ideal money should just be money and nothing else, according to what I have read.

Or maybe I could be wrong about the concept of data that you be referring to.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 18m

It is part of the op_return drama, but maybe just a new perspective on it.

The sole purpose of money is to be a highly salable intermediary good to solve the problem of batter, and prove that you have generated value in order to exchange in a society. Thus, the ideal money should just be money and nothing else, according to what I have read.

I think the insight I am coming to is that maybe anything that is good money might necessarily be good data storage as well... especially the characteristics of verifiability and persistence

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @arataa 6m

Ah, I see now. Hm, it would be interesting to study other successful moneys in history to find more about that correlation. Well, there's nothing better than starting out with the Rai Stones lol.

Would you like to get any updates if I find some data related to your correlation with a possible consequent utility of money?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 3m

sure, that'd be great

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @gregtonoski 1h

Inscribe in stone if you want persistent medium.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 18m

Indeed, and I think the spammers should store their jpegs in things better suited for storing jpegs.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @rootmachine 4h

For me it is not persistent. It is until someone needs it for something else.

31 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 6h

people also used rocks for eternal storage... remember the cave paintings?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 5h

This brings up the question of why choose gold when other media will do? Carving inscriptions into stone would also give you the persistence you wanted.

Perhaps it was simply vanity, as maybe the NFT-spammers are today.

But hopefully, my point is that Bitcoin can survive as a monetary unit even if it's also being used on the side as data storage, just like gold had.

130 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 5h

indeed, cave paintings were NFTs 😂😂😂😂😂😂

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 5h

brilliant

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @fourrules 5h

And people pay for more jewellery. If CSAM was written into gold would it be melted down to remove the immoral content?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5h

I still do not understand why some people are still buying gold or silver as "value storage"... IT IS REALLY DUMB. What are you going to do with that pile of metals ? Going to buy a coffee or a bunch of potatoes? Don't think so.

If you are really into "doom scenario" where no electricity, no internet is runn ing, so no bitcoin also, I could understand your scary scenario, but also gold bars will not help you too much.

In such a doom scenario gold will be totally useless, everybody's priorities will be: water, food, salt maybe batteries and fuel and other important things, than gold.

Guys, please re-watch the whole "MadMax" saga just to have a glimpse of the reality of a doom scenario... gold will be just as another metal... a material that will have a sole purpose, but not as money or medium of exchange.