Taxes & Spending Bitcoin (KYC'd Sats)
1069 sats \ 44 comments \ @NOV 25 Jan 2023 bitcoin
Using bitcoin as "cash"/a medium of exchange seems highly cumbersome right now, at least in the U.S. Every time someone spends sats, they have to keep track of their cost basis and report every transaction's gain/loss to report it come tax time.
Are there any services that facilitate this record keeping?
Other than KYC-free spending, how can we reduce the friction of spending sats?
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1069 sats \ 5 replies \ @super_testnet 25 Jan 2023
Section 988 of the IRS Internal Revenue Code says that foreign currencies have a de minimus exemption of $200, which means if you sell bitcoin for something and accrue less than $200 on the sale, you don't need to report it. This is my tax advice.
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40 sats \ 0 replies \ @satcat 25 Jan 2023
So cool that Bitcoin is a legit foreign currency now in 2 countries!
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110 sats \ 1 reply \ @satdeck 26 Jan 2023
Well it is one more thing for them to "hold" against you if they really want to charge you with something. Everyone breaks various laws and don't realize it. only when the govt goons want to strong arm you will they "enforce" something.
Or want to get rid of you.
The deck is stacked against us.
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41 sats \ 0 replies \ @super_testnet 26 Jan 2023
There are more laws than anyone can read, and I would not be surprised if some of them contradict other ones. Tyrants in government probably love this because when they arrest people for despotic reasons, they can make it look legit by finding an obscure law and then charging them with violating it.
But I don't think that is a good reason to avoid perfectly legal and good actions. How sorry a life I'd lead if, on the point of doing some good thing, I thought, "What if a tyrant arrests me!" If you live with a government like that, it's an abusive relationship, and I recommend finding a new country.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiracDelta 26 Jan 2023
I have also read this section of code. Moreover, my view is that since I sincerely believe this to be correct, even in the event it were overruled, it could not be construed as criminal.
It is not just that IRS guidance may be unlawful, if you look at their verbiage, it is unintelligible gibberish. "Digital assets" and other nonsense buzzwords are not real things, and they would have you believe that my posting this message would be a "digital asset" transaction.
More broadly, the fact that Bitcoin has a UTXO rather than account model might make it untaxable in any context ever, since it is just speech and not money.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ncryppt 26 Jan 2023
good to know
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449 sats \ 0 replies \ @go 25 Jan 2023
The ones that exist only really work if you're working out of the same xls/csv file for both buying btc and spending btc. If you are buying and selling in different apps, it gets very convoluted
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378 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Jan 2023
Please, if you are so worried about paying taxes, just give me all your sats. Go back to your fiat shitcoin USD.
For fuck sake: TAXATION IS THEFT! Why do you keep paying taxes to mafia? Why do you support robbery?
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442 sats \ 8 replies \ @RdioActiv 25 Jan 2023
Why do you keep paying taxes to mafia?
To stay alive?
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1 sat \ 2 replies \ @DiracDelta 26 Jan 2023
How many examples can you point to of the state murdering bitcoiners for buying lunch with "unregistered sats"? How often do you think Americans spend "unregistered sats"?
The state relies on ubiquity illusions to make you think it's more powerful than it really is.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @RdioActiv 26 Jan 2023
My government trampled peaceful protestors with horses, and seized their bank accounts without consequence.
I know damn well what they are capable of.
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11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiracDelta 26 Jan 2023
This is a terrible example. "What they are capable of" is FUD.
Jumping around on the streets is LARPing and will obviously draw attentiion. Bitcoin & nostr are the real protests.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hermit 26 Jan 2023
Why people liked the comment of paying taxes. And what do you mean? You don't pay taxes? You don't buy anything? You don't work? I agree that is a mafia stealing, and more when taxing income, but even a Hermit like my has to pay taxes.
Hope this people are living on solar panels, growing their food and connecting to the internet of a neighbor, avoid somehow property taxes, before talking and tipping these type of comments.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @rothbardllc 25 Jan 2023
deleted by author
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10 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Jan 2023
Yes, I do not pay any tax. If any taxman come to my door, I simply ask: please show me the contract where I signed to pay you for "some services". Oh you don't have that contract? Goodbye.
I buy anything I want. With bitcoin. If you still can't figure it out how to live using Bitcoin, is your problem, not mine.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @supertestnet_phone 26 Jan 2023
How do you avoid sales tax? When I go to stores and buy something, my receipt usually tells me exactly how much sales tax I paid, even when I pay with bitcoin. Perhaps you live in a country without sales tax?
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11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Jan 2023
LOL US people... You pay the final price, no matter what the seller is telling you the "story" of taxes on the bill. The seller will charge you anyways that final price, no matter if is paying or not taxes. The fact that is mentioned on the bill/ticket is just a stupidity to show to the rest of the world that is proudly paying taxes.
If I sell you something and on my invoice I put "tax" x amount, it doesn't mean I literally pay it. I can put whatever I want in the invoice, you will always pay the final total amount.
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229 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 25 Jan 2023
Yep, unless someone is buying like a house or a car in the US with btc, You are a fool if you are keeping track of every BTC transaction you spend btc on for taxes lmao.
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132 sats \ 0 replies \ @rothbardllc 25 Jan 2023
"just as no one is morally required to answer a robber truthfully when he asks if there are any valuables in one’s house, so no one can be morally required to answer truthfully similar questions asked by the State, e.g., when filling out income tax returns." Murray Rothbard
Remember, with bitcoin you are volunteering any tax payment you make. That's their only way to get tax from you. You have to voluntarily give it to them. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable, of course.
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20 sats \ 15 replies \ @kr 25 Jan 2023
i think you’re asking an important question.
it may not a big deal when the amounts are a few pennies or dollars, but there will come a time when people start slinging around thousands of dollars in sats each month.
i haven’t found a good tool for keeping track of all lightning activity yet, part of the problem is that it’s possible to send and receive from many different apps that don’t talk to each other.
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162 sats \ 13 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Jan 2023
You are so busy and concentrated on how to open that door instead of just fuck it around... Sadly, this is happening with the majority of law abiding citizens. STOP being a shitizen (aka slave), be a damn sovereign individual.
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10 sats \ 12 replies \ @kr 25 Jan 2023
i thought @bitcoinerrorlog had the right view on this issue in our recent conversation.
ignoring the law is stupid, trying to get regulators to support bitcoin won’t work, but building a system that cannot be regulated and fighting for bitcoin rights seems like the path forward.
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32 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Jan 2023
WHAT is "the law"? If I write on a piece of paper "I am allowed to rob you" you will obey that paper, named "law"? Because this what it is taxation, ROBBERY. Say it the true name.
From where is coming the authority of those "regulators"? Who gives them authority over me, the living man? If somebody have any authority or jurisdiction over me, is not that SLAVERY?
I never consent to anybody to have any authority over me, so why am I lied, forced, deceived to obey their authority, aka slavery?
WHEN PEOPLE WILL WAKE THE FUCK UP AND SEE THESE THINGS?
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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr 25 Jan 2023
i hear you.
what is your best guess for why people have not “woken up to see” the things you outline?
repetitively yelling at people to wake up is insanity, perhaps it’s time for a new strategy…
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @AmadeusK525_old 26 Jan 2023
Unfortunately I don't think there's an answer to this. We've seen time and time again throughout history how people need to be pushed to the absolute bottom of the well to want to get out, otherwise they'll stay put miday through (or even ask to be pushed a little bit down because it feels safer).
Recently all I've seen is the issue getting worse by the day. Both left-wing and right-wing individuals just want a dictatorship, just one that's on "their side". Whoever wants to climb out of the well must choose to do that on their own.
That's my pessimistic view on this
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 26 Jan 2023
Bitcoin doesn't give a shit about any "wings", left or right, black or white. It simply FUCK'EM'ALL.
Bitcoin is for sovereign individuals not for obedient slaves of "wings"...
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AmadeusK525_old 26 Jan 2023
Yup, I used that term because society as a whole is obsessed with it nowadays, people want to fit into a "wing". Bitcoin (and libertarianism) is above that, since wings are inherently political and, thus, disgusting
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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Hermit 26 Jan 2023
How do you pay for the electricity that charges your phone to type all this non sense? In all the countries I lived electricity or gas had taxes.
I can't understand how you are so wise in some areas and such a non sense brain in others
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Jan 2023
The fact that you live under a rock, it doesn't mean everybody else also live under a rock...
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Hermit 26 Jan 2023
Sure, but you are not responding to the question of how you deal to get electricity, gas for your vehicle, or any goods and services to survive without paying taxes.
I only know 1 way where that's possible, and is from mommies basement.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Jan 2023
Did you read ALL my guides? I wrote several of them...
https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/pay-bills-with-bitcoin
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @snakedye 27 Jan 2023
You need to think a little bit like the institutions. People rarely get audited. You are probably not at the top of audit list. If you don't disclose your lightning transaction no one cares. As long as you disclose the big transaction, no one will bother to come knock on your door to check how much money to tipped on SN.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lurusan 25 Jan 2023
Get non KYC Bitcoin from Robosats or other sources
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71 sats \ 0 replies \ @sudonaka 26 Jan 2023
First of all you have to remember we never "send" any Bitcoin anywhere. What happens is that we are using software to change code. (Assigning ownership of Sats) Thus, lightning and on-chain "transactions" are just free-speech and not taxable. If you are trading USD for Sats through a KYC exchange, end of year they send you tax data with every (traceable) USD trade crunched for you. Then give the devil his due. Nothing more.
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12 sats \ 0 replies \ @luisschwab 26 Jan 2023
Why are you doxxing yourself to the IRS? Just buy noKYC corn and spend away.
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12 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 25 Jan 2023
Lol, yeah unless you are running a business. No one in the US is doing that lmao.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @satcat 25 Jan 2023
Better mix those dirty KYC coins
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @shyfire 27 Jan 2023
Or better yet - avoid KYC entirely.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @shyfire 27 Jan 2023
Paying with Strike is not taxable.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 26 Jan 2023
It's super cumbersome, I think there's koinly you can use and plug in the data dumps from wallets or exchanges and it can work it out for you but really its just an incentive not to spend your bitcoin or limit your spending of it to non-kyc transfers
If you want to spend bitcoin, best to secure that spendable stash non-kyc, spending your KYC sats is always going to leave a trail that you might have to explain in the future.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @falsefaucet 25 Jan 2023
should you be in this situation, you can select which LOT of sats your selling
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