How many sats should I have per "address" thinking 10 yrs out? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

How many sats should I have per "address" thinking 10 yrs out?

540 sats \ 18 comments \ @IHL 6 Feb 2023 bitcoin

Of course there are many factors to consider including how much you have in total and how much a given amount in sats buys you in the future.

I'm thinking about having to spend without revealing too much to the receiver in case privacy advances aren't what we might hope by that point. In that case I might want to have less per sending address.

However, if fees are too high then small balances won't work. Is a million sats too high or too low? 5 million? Again, I'm not at all thinking about where I keep the bulk of it.

I'd really appreciate anyone that has mulled this over offering their thoughts.

Edit: Whenever there is an increase in "blocks to clear" sustained for a few days it reminds me to think about how I should do my best to prepare sooner rather than later.

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307 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 7 Feb 2023

Use Lightning Network. Onchain is not meant to be used for "spending".

Use the 3 levels of stashing:

Onchain - your vault, most of your funds that you almost never move, cold wallets
Cache - medium amount, managing funds in/out, nodes, onchain etc
Spend - small amounts, in LN wallets, your spending pockets, that are always moving

THINK LIKE A BANK, NOT JUST BE A BANK

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @IHL OP 7 Feb 2023

Thanks. The 3 levels model seems useful. I think I'll be tweaking the set-up for some time.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @falsefaucet 7 Feb 2023

well to play devils advocate here. the network cant differentiate a spend from any other moving of utxos.

so to say onchain isn't for spending is like saying onchain isn't for moving utxos.

sorry for splitting hairs.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 7 Feb 2023

Yes, is more for opening / closing LN channels.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @falsefaucet 7 Feb 2023

you da man btw.

300 sats \ 2 replies \ @01xCc 7 Feb 2023

ты можешь взять калькулятор и посчитать какой самый высокий комиссионый сбор! биткоин ограничен. поетому кто то не сможет отправить его так как все монеты уже будут в мем пуле. платить высокии комиссии так же станет не выгодно))) причина в том что эти комиссии собирут майнеры и не станут отпровлять! хотя энергия платная но % можно отложить! тебе стоит приучить себя к комиссии в 2000 сатоши или 25000 . так будет проще в будущем... и не важно что 2000 сатоши это 2000$ в будущем. просто храни там где считаешь нужным.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @IHL OP 7 Feb 2023

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I got the full meaning of the second post and most of the first after translating.

I am starting to think 1 sat/vB for next block inclusion actually isn't coming back again. Also, up to a 25,000 sats fee is probably wise to plan for.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @01xCc 7 Feb 2023

да перевод иногда страдает! были комиссии и по 285000 сатоши. но есть очень странный побочный эффект у биткоина) майнеры могут просто отключить оборудование и нагнать огромные комиссии а затем включить. что вызовет рост скорости блока 10 минут 8 минут или даже 5 минут... это поможет убрать с рынка огромное количество транзакций за 14 дней до перерасчета. но есть решение проще... договориться с покупателем!))

300 sats \ 9 replies \ @Wumbo 7 Feb 2023

Great Topic!

Couple thoughts:

Maybe prioritize opening lightning channels over consolidating on chain address. A lightning channel might be more useful and valuable.
Think through the cost of mixing your coins. Doing a coin join will have some fees (granted those fees might be lower now then in the future). One may want to mix before putting associating coins into same address.

I have given it a little thought but look forward to others opinion.

154 sats \ 0 replies \ @IHL OP 7 Feb 2023

Thanks for the reply! I got pretty involved with the plebnet community a little over a year and a half ago but never actually opened a channel to anyone. I think you are right that it is time to do so now.

Edit: You are right I definitely need to coin join in multiple rounds before opening channels.

319 sats \ 7 replies \ @gandlaf21 7 Feb 2023

I disagree, most of your stack should be in cold storage. doesn't have to be 'consolidated' on one address Use a new address for every onchain transaction. If you wanna go the extra mile do coin control & coinjoin.

But pls don't put your stack all in channels. It's too risky. Only spending amounts.

Big spends usually don't mind if they take a bit longer to settle, so you can still do these on chain.

20 sats \ 6 replies \ @IHL OP 7 Feb 2023

Thanks for the response. I do agree with you. I see now the first reply could be interpreted more than one way.

My current thinking is I would only ever lock a small percentage of my sats into lightning channels. Because of that I didn't interpret the response as suggesting one should risk a significant proportion that way. It's possible that's what was meant though.

I'm definitely sticking almost exclusively to cold storage.

Any thoughts on what might be a good amount of sats to have for each of people's smallest utxo sets? Maybe have a whole bunch of smaller ones with 1.5 million sats per? I'm thinking about safety and not needing to reveal you have very much to others when spending.

I know there are so many variables.

220 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 7 Feb 2023

Yes, I didn't mean to put all coins in Lightning channel. More that you will want to have some lighting channels open, before high fee environment sets in.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gandlaf21 7 Feb 2023

Yes, totally agree with that.

200 sats \ 3 replies \ @gandlaf21 7 Feb 2023

Cool, yeah i think it's obvious for most, but i wanted to clarify.

I think it should be enough to just use a new address for everything. If you received huge amounts in one transaction you can think about splitting it up. But i think i wouldn't go to such lengths

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @IHL OP 7 Feb 2023

Okay, your input is much appreciated. I just want my set up as clean as possible. I'm thinking I should plan in case we get into a situation where you can't get a basic transaction through for less than a 100,000 sats fee to the miners like at some points in 2017.

Might seem absurd now but you never know. If that happens there are going to be a lot of stranded sats out there.

200 sats \ 0 replies \ @gandlaf21 7 Feb 2023

It doesn't really matter if they are stranded, cold stored BTC should avoid being moved anyway. Eventually the tx will get mined for cheap, if you're not in a rush (which you shouldn't be if you plan accordingly)

That's why it's important to think about what is your spending/receiving habits and use LN for that, and for stacking you can use on chain.

Setting up an emergency stack i can get behind, one that is cold stored but can be liquidated (moved to channels/sidechains) quickly. But doing that with your whole stack will probably give you a headache

Just my opinions here, people might disagree

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @01xCc 7 Feb 2023

тебе нужны кристально чистые монеты??? могу тебе помочь с этим. там будет одна транзакция с нового блока 6.25 монет. минимальный резус фактор для 0,001 монет. и не важно сколько ты будешь ее хранить... Многие майнеры так делают... они просто разбивают по 100000 сатоши для будущего!)))