My LN self custody experience \ stacker news ~bitcoin

2086 sats \ 28 comments \ @orangesurf 19 Feb 2023 bitcoin

Running self custodial lightning is not as painful as it once was, this is my setup.

I run an umbrel node (LND + BTCPayServer) with a reverse tor proxy to expose BTCPayServer (I use the cheapest Lunanode VPS).

I run tailscale on the umbrel node and on my phone, using Zeus to interface with my node from anywhere.

I have just 2 channels with well connected nodes and rarely have issues routing.

Setup Cost:

Pi4 (I wouldn't buy this again today, I'd get a cheap micro computer.)
1 TB SSD (Might be worth a 2TB if you can get a good deal)

Monthly Cost:

m.1s on Lunanode for reverse proxy ($3.5 / mo)

With this setup I can

Accept payments / tips via the BTCPayServer store (tips.orange.surf)
Accept payments / tips via LN Address (sats@tips.orange.surf)
Make payments (From Zeus)
Manage channels (From Zeus)

All that is missing is NIP57 support from BTCPayServer to accept Zaps on nostr.

The only issue is the loading speed of the btcpayser, it takes 20 seconds to load the tips page and a further 20 seconds to load a LN invoice. A faster reverse tor proxy, or a more powerful machine running BTCPayServer would help, but tor is probably the bottleneck. I may try using tailscale as the proxy instead.

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61 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 19 Feb 2023

Beside Tailscale / zerotier you could use LNC (Lightning Node connect) from Lightning Terminal to connect your Zeus to your node.

https://docs.zeusln.app/for-users/connecting-zeus/connect-umbrel

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @orangesurf OP 19 Feb 2023

Thanks, yes LNC is good too. It was released just after I got this set up but it works well

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @022fbc9cef 19 Feb 2023

Wait, so you don’t need a VPN like Tailscale or Wireguard to connect to your node when using LNC?

What is the magic behind LNC and besides VPN, why is it so much better than REST?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 19 Feb 2023

https://docs.lightning.engineering/lightning-network-tools/lightning-terminal/lightning-node-connect

Works like a charm for me. Much faster than Zerotier.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Eximpius 19 Feb 2023

Wait, Zeus has a LNC option, I never noticed this and just used REST.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 19 Feb 2023

Oh it does, has that always been there? I don’t remember that being an option back in November.

120 sats \ 2 replies \ @jasenwar 19 Feb 2023

Use lnc It will change your life

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @orthwyrm 20 Feb 2023

Oh my god, yes. Before now I was connecting through Tor and it was slow to the point of being unusable. This is so much smoother.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 19 Feb 2023

Can confirm

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Busybe3z 19 Feb 2023

👀 “Learning”

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @pillar 20 Feb 2023

Great job, you are doing awesome stuff.

If I may suggest something: explore deploying your own LNbits instance on top of your LND. It takes very little effort and will give you SO MUCH cool stuff. It's hard to state how much fun and useful a lightning node becomes when you add LNbits to it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @spraveenitpro 21 Feb 2023

this is impressive, unfortunately I am unable to find any one to open channel with, how would you recommend I do that?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DKshadow 20 Feb 2023

Thx for the first hand experience

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NEEDcreations 20 Feb 2023

Could you possibly link me to a guide for setting up BTCpay server with Umbrel? I'm a tech noob and "reverse proxy" kind of scares me lol.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 19 Feb 2023

For LN node I suggest having setup with two SSDs in a mirror, for better reliability.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @83hdf909e 19 Feb 2023

Thanks for posting this, I've been thinking about doing this myself. Started playing with BTCPayServer but didn't get much further.

Tor slowness sounds like a dealbreaker for tips. Did you try the Cloudflare method mentioned in the BTCPayServer docs?: https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Docker/cloudflare-tunnel/

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @clr 20 Feb 2023

This may be unpopular opinion, but I would avoid Cloudflare for handling private traffic. How is it that this company came out of nowhere and now they handle so much of the internet’s infrastructure while they offer all those “awesome” “free” services? Granted, it might be convenient to set up, but don’t forget they can see all your traffic.

I don’t see the point of going for self-sovereignty by setting up a home node/server and then letting a potential adversary see all your private traffic.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @83hdf909e 20 Feb 2023

Yep, great point. Also mentioned in the BTCPayServer docs too.

I don't know if this is totally correct, but doesn't BOLT 12 and its "offers" function potentially fix all of this reliance middle-men? (in the context of NIP-57 / tipping)

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @83hdf909e 20 Feb 2023

Also, I'd hope that this would *not * be an unpopular opinion. We all need to keep reminding ourselves why we're here at the end of the day 💪

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @orangesurf OP 19 Feb 2023

I have not seen that, it looks useful and similar to using tailscale as a proxy

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @0260378aef 19 Feb 2023

The only issue is the loading speed of the btcpayser, it takes 20 seconds to load the tips page and a further 20 seconds to load a LN invoice. A faster reverse tor proxy, or a more powerful machine running BTCPayServer would help, but tor is probably the bottleneck.

I have a similar setup and usually experience a delay, though I'd say closer to 5s on average. It must be partly tor. It seems worth it to me, but 40s total is bad.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @orangesurf OP 19 Feb 2023

Thanks, useful to know 5s is possible

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joyepzion 19 Feb 2023

The whole stuff sounds gibberish to me and I'm not too conversant with LN node, maybe whenever I get to set mine up I will understand more.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 19 Feb 2023

Thank you for detailing this out. For laypeople, this probably sounds like another language. I’m glad to hear it’s not as painful as it used to be, but I also hope that it becomes even easier over time to help with adoption.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Eximpius 19 Feb 2023

You might as well use clearnet if you are going to use tailscale. There are self host options like Headscale and another I can’t remember. That or just use OpenVPN or wireguard on your network for incoming connections to your network.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @orangesurf OP 19 Feb 2023

I am running it on my own hardware and can't/don't know how to get a static IP and set up the router to allow incoming connections.

Tailscale / Zerotier makes a quick private connection convenient without configuration of routers / incoming connections / fixed IP addresses. Tor is similar but slower.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Eximpius 19 Feb 2023

It may be quick, but you are trusting tailscale. You have to use their servers. I'm just saying you might not as well use tor at all, even for LND and bitcoind if you are going to use tailscale. Unless you host something like headscale yourself.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 19 Feb 2023

you can also use Lightning node connect with zeus instead of rest