> Judgment is for dictators, not peers. So you let me buy CCs, I let you use a bank. I just hope you don't get rugged, and I hope you hope that I don't fuck up my keys.

i absolutely agree with this and i think it is a good end for the discussion

i hope it is clear, that i never had the intention to tell you what you should do. it was a genuine interest in your reasoning for doing what you're doing and i think i understand you much better now than before

it is also worth mentioning, that we probably agree on more than we disagree

nathanael

to find truth through logic and reason i am not sure how helpful it is to look at a paper written in 2008.

Routing is what makes it peer-through-peer, so correct, it is not pure p2p. I consider it a necessary evil for onion routing. I personally don't need onion routing per-se because I mix, but it's a welcome addition to the toolbox.

Technically, yes. It also extracts a fee for providing anonymization, so there is some value to be had. But yes, it's a middleman.

so we could assmilk and let the kid buy his sandwich

Yes, though capital efficiency is very bad right now. There was a nice video about it re-shared today (it's from October) 

are you saying because bitcoin scaled in the past it will scale in the future?

No, I am saying that it has always scaled non-custodially and that any custodial solution is a lazy, and more often, deceitful solution. Like Udi saying his FTX reflink is the only way to scale Bitcoin.

you are describing the ideal scenario where you have a direct channel with sn, but i guess you agree, that this is not viable/practical for all sn users right?

I'm describing what I do, not an ideal scenario. Ideally I could buy credits from L1, and do it in a mix-out straight from a coinjoin. Everyone can find their own path to success though, I don't really care. Judgment is for dictators, not peers. So you let me buy CCs, I let you use a bank. I just hope you don't get rugged, and I hope you hope that I don't fuck up my keys.

devs

How FOSS devs maintain their apps?

DarthCoin

> to find truth through logic and reason i am not sure how helpful it is to look at a paper written in 2008.

Why not? That's Bitcoin. 

> 1. do you consider routing in ln purely p2p?

Routing is what makes it peer-through-peer, so correct, it is not pure p2p. I consider it a necessary evil for onion routing. I personally don't need onion routing per-se because I mix, but it's a welcome addition to the toolbox.

> 2. is a ln node that routes payments a middlemen?

Technically, yes. It also extracts a fee for providing anonymization, so there is some value to be had. But yes, it's a middleman.

> so we could assmilk and let the kid buy his sandwich

Yes, though capital efficiency is very bad right now. There was a nice video about it re-shared today (it's from October) https://stacker.news/items/1407525/r/optimism?commentId=1407722

> are you saying because bitcoin scaled in the past it will scale in the future?

No, I am saying that it has always scaled non-custodially and that any custodial solution is a lazy, and more often, deceitful solution. Like Udi saying his FTX reflink is the only way to scale Bitcoin.

> you are describing the ideal scenario where you have a direct channel with sn, but i guess you agree, that this is not viable/practical for all sn users right?

I'm describing what I do, not an ideal scenario. Ideally I could buy credits from L1, and do it in a mix-out straight from a coinjoin. Everyone can find their own path to success though, I don't really care. Judgment is for dictators, not peers. So you let me buy CCs, I let you use a bank. I just hope you don't get rugged, and I hope you hope that I don't fuck up my keys.