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your post or comment gets a +14.28% bigger zap.
Huh? Why would I care about the zap size on a comment where I buy CCs? What value does the increased discovery of that could-be-private conversation have for me? If anything, I'd want my financial transactions to be not public?
contribute to the reward pool
Not sure what the added value of this is? Rewards pool is assmilker functionality.
you also indirectly contribute to the ~AGORA (I pay you back the 21% fees)
If I wanted to contribute to ~AGORA, shouldn't I just sell or buy something? Isn't that much more substantial?
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I am saying that the value proposition still isn't whole for the buy side, or the sell side.
Besides, it feels like people trying to arb the "CC market" are coming up with more ways to optimize but never being able to really make a real business case because everyone with ongoing interest values 1cc=1sat - only those that need to liquidate a lot of CCs quickly are able to do an offer, and there aren't that many of those.
The other day, Murch sent me 5k CCs "to distribute". Took me less than half a day to burn through it, with a wallet attached, so this was just for the territory/pool cost side of things. CCs evaporate if you're actively participating on SN. There's so much emphasis on profit that, if you look at the market, there not being any taker profit. It just doesn't make any sense.
PS: This obsession with CCs wastes so much energy!!! If ~AGORA did no CC business and just focused on trade of tangible items for sats, wouldn't that be a whole lot more long term constructive? Like... we're wasting so much time solving a problem that, according to the market, doesn't exist? Only opportunism exists?
Thanks, this is the most honest critique we've gotten so far.
How would the zap size on a comment where I buy CCs benefit me?
Stackers can provide a link to another comment or post (outside this thread) if they prefer the zap (or why not downzap) to go somewhere else within the ~AGORA territory.
Not sure what the added value of this is? Rewards pool is assmilker functionality.
Buying CCs 1:1 from SN you don't contribute anything anywhere, so compared to that, it is added value for this offer.
If I wanted to contribute to ~AGORA, shouldn't I just sell or buy something? Isn't that much more substantial?
Indeed it would be, but not everyone has or want anything to buy or sell. This offer gives stackers an alternative way to contribute to SN P2P marketplace.
You're right on the rate. At 0.745 gross stackers pay ~1.065 sats per CC received, and the SN wallet gives 1:1. Nobody should rationally buy CCs from me at a premium-to-parity. I won't pretend otherwise. The value I can offer is a P2P alternative to routing every trade through the wallet. I'm pricing that in as honestly as I can.
Your read matches mine on the current market structure. The only demand that actually exists is liquidation. Stackers holding CCs they don't want to reinvest, who want sats out before the credits sit idle. That's why the BID side (buying at 0.90) is driving some business.
Your read matches mine on market structure. The only demand that actually exists is liquidation, stackers holding CCs they don't want to reinvest, stackers who want sats out instead of credits sitting idle. That's why the BID side (buying at 0.90) is driving some business.
In the tangible goods side, the territory is not, and shouldn't be, defined by the CC trades. Exchanging CCs P2P is just another digital item in the marketplace, unique to SN, and that's why the AGORA can take care of it, offering best rates and environment to do so. Trading actual goods for sats is far more constructive. We set all the marketplace infrastructure, all documented and explained, even created a dedicated escrow service in case it's needed.
What else you think we could do to incentivize stackers to openly trade P2P?
The post to boost, within ~AGORA, is something cool. I think it's circumvent and complicated, but you do have a point there. A very small one, but a point nevertheless.
I do think that the benefits you explain are really, really small, especially since trading CCs P2P outside of liquidation probably means someone was buying those CCs.
What else you think we could do to incentivize stackers to openly trade P2P?
I'll approach this from my personal situation, i.e. what is prohibiting me to list my buy and sell orders for physical goods or even digital things on ~AGORA:
- The anon <-> reputation conflict. It's extremely hard to do private things if there is an expectation of reputation. However, modern(-ish) surveillance tech requires us to be extremely careful with our digital footprint. Building a reputation in a shadow market while erasing tracks is really, really hard[1]
- For physical goods: the worst problem here is that there is no working solution for anonymous goods delivery. There is always a trail. And again, it's not just the subpoena threat that's an issue; the breach and insider threats are huge too.
So the problems for me are: having to post as anon and thus having no reputation - meaning you always have to offer at a discount or buy at premium, and for the buy side specifically, having no means of delivery.
If we can solve both these issues then we make agoric trading great. If we cannot, then the risk will not outweigh the rewards.
Just imagine having traded with a Revolut user on robosats or lnp2pbot or mostro. It's not just the bossman that we have to worry about. Breaches are by far the larger problem. Even if you weren't using revolut but your counterparty was, your trading pattern is now in the hands of... every asshole that knows how to open an onion site. ↩
The post to boost, within ~AGORA, is something cool. I think it's circumvent and complicated, but you do have a point there. A very small one, but a point nevertheless.
I do think that the benefits you explain are really, really small, especially since trading CCs P2P outside of liquidation probably means someone was buying those CCs.
I'm happy you can see some value on my offer :)
I'll continue the new topics about anon <-> reputation conflict and physical delivery in separate posts as your feedback sharpens the whole thing I've been researching foer a while now.
Yes, I need to find a middle ground. There are extra benefits buying CCs from me: