This will probably expose my ignorance of the lightning network, but can someone explain to me where the sats go if they are sent to my lightning wallet which is connected to my node? Are they simply held in my lightning wallet?
These sats are sent to the lightning network, but no channel is opened, at least so far as I understand.
I will brace myself for abuse.
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40 sats \ 11 replies \ @Wumbo 5 Apr 2023
A channel has to be open to use the lightning network. And you need some remote balance (inbound Liquidity) on the channel to receive.
What Lightning wallet and node are you using?
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3 sats \ 9 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
I use a Zeus wallet, with which I manage my node remotely. If I earn sats on SN, fountain, etc, I will once in a while deposit it into my Zeus lightning wallet. Zeus acknowledges receipt, but I can't tell exactly where it goes.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 5 Apr 2023
The balance in a channel in which your node participates has been moved towards your node. So you now have more outbound liquidity than before. Think of channels like an abacus. The capacity of a channel is always the same, only the balance changes.
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0 sats \ 7 replies \ @Wumbo 5 Apr 2023
In you zeus app do you have the option to see channels? see below video for where the option might be
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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Yes. In fact that's the main feature I use on Zeus. I have 15 open channels. I'm trying to understand the concept of where the deposit goes. Let's say if I send from my SN wallet. So far as I can tell, no channel is being opened at that point between SN and my node. The transaction is obviously routed through my network, but in what channel does it end up?
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @richnost 5 Apr 2023
You may have noticed that a channel is often visually represented as a bar with two colors to represent how many sats you can receive and how many you can send. The act of receiving a payment is the movement of sats from the receive side to the send side.
The sending lightning node will calculate a route over the lightning network to your receiving node. A route consists of hops from one channel to the next until it terminates at one of your 15 channels. So, where the sats "go" is one of your 15 channels. The route will ensure that there are enough sats on your channel's opposite side, so the final step to receiving a payment is moving the sats from your peer's side of the channel to your side.
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20 sats \ 4 replies \ @Wumbo 5 Apr 2023
A transaction can have multiple hops.
Example: SN Node to WOS Node to Your Node.
The transaction amount was "Delivered" by one of your open node. The remote balance on that node was decreased and the local balance was increased on your side.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Thanks. I guess I would have to note each channel's incoming and outgoing liquidity to see what changed post transaction to determine exactly which channel received the balance.
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32 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Apr 2023
You would need to use a more advanced app for your node accounting.
For example Thunderhub or RTL are very good web apps to manage your node liquidity and trace all the in/out transactions.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Thank you. this is what I was looking for.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Apr 2023
Exactly this. Good answer.
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24 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Apr 2023
Is not a stupid question.
Is just lack of knowledge.
Please consider reading my guides, especially this one where I put a lot of LN resources to be read and assimilated by noobs.
The knowledge path start by reading Bitcoin documentation.
https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-network-is-awesome
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
I have read your guides and have learned a lot, I think. This specific situation has me confused:
I use a Zeus wallet, with which I manage my node remotely. If I earn sats on SN, fountain, etc, I will once in a while deposit it into my Zeus lightning wallet. Zeus acknowledges receipt, but I can't tell exactly where it goes.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Apr 2023
I wrote also the whole documentation for Zeus https://docs.zeusln.app/.
Where I put more details about how to be used, because Zeus can be used in many ways: as a node management app and also as a lndhub account interface, to be used as a normal LN wallet.
If you used Zeus with a lndhub account, the channels management is done by the custodian of your account.
If you used Zeus with your own LN node, then you must start open channels with both liquidity (inbound and outbound) as @Wumbo told you very well.
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20 sats \ 2 replies \ @random_ 5 Apr 2023
LND, etc. are just daemons that run on top of bitcoind and interpret transactions.
For example, you could have lnd on a separate machine and connect it to your OG bitcoin node.
Sending to your lightning wallet means you requested an address via LND, which forwared that request to bitcoind. Essentially, all you did was use a different way to generate the address.
The same thing happens with channels.
Channels are a just special type of address. One or both parties fund a multisig address with a funding tx after agreeing on how the balance will be dispersed (the commitment tx). It's all still utxos on the blockchain, manipulated by bitcoind via lnd. You could do it all manually. LND just abstracts the functionaly into a daemon.
For receiving payments, think of like a combination of spider webs and abacuses. Beads are shifted from the sender to their neighbor in a path towards you. You are only ever receiving sats from your neighbors, but the payment could have originated from anywhere.
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Excellent explanation! Thanks. I have used LND addresses but really never understood them conceptually.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @random_ 5 Apr 2023
Just gonna clarify the difference between address and invoice.
Either LND or bitcoind can generate an address. Receiving payment via an address requires an onchain transaction.
The abucus and spiderweb analogy refers to receiving payment via an invoice.
Sorry for the confusion.
I definitely recommended chaincode labs gitbook if you would like to learn more.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Majjin 5 Apr 2023
Looks like you've already got your questions answered. Here's my super simplistic answer: The sats go where the channel exists. If you're using something like OBW or Phoenix the channel is on your phone. If you're using something like Zeus, the channel is on your node and your phone is acting as a remote control for your node.
Kinda sad that you're expecting abuse for asking a simple question.
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20 sats \ 5 replies \ @Scoresby 5 Apr 2023
It sounds a little like you expect a channel to exist between your lightning node and your wallet. This doesn't happen.
Channels can only be between nodes and wallets are not nodes. As with on chain bitcoin, wallets cannot interact with the network (send, look at balances) without a node.
If you have paired your wallet with a node, it means you are using your wallet to sign transactions that are being sent or received using the liquidity in the channels your node has set up.
If your node has not set up any channels with other nodes, you can't send or receive.
Where is the bitcoin? With lightning, the answer is always in a channel--one of your channels if using your own lightning node or one of your custodian's if you are using someone else's.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ama 5 Apr 2023
Of course wallets can have their own channels.
Electrum and Phoneix do so, for example, since they are their own node.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 5 Apr 2023
Good point. I wasn't thinking of wallets like Phoenix and Breeze.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Right. I understand that. I was asking specifically regarding the situation where the wallet is connected to my node (in my case, Zeus) I should have framed my question better. What I really wanted to know was how to see exactly which of my channels got the added liquidity.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ama 5 Apr 2023
Yes, I got that. I was only replying the poster who said wallets aren't nodes and they don't handle their own channels, which is true for some pieces of software, but not for LN wallets like Electrum, etc.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Thanks for your answer. I think this helps me. One question: If one of my open channels winds up with the balance, how is that selected? Solely based on whatever route the node used to complete the transaction?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @bitcointerest 5 Apr 2023
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5 Apr 2023
Thanks for the explanation. When you say:
My point is, that if I withdraw sats from my SN wallet and send it to my Zeus wallet, which is connected to my node, I am not opening a channel with the SN wallet.
That was my confusion.
Others have explained to me what in fact does happen in this case. See prior responses.
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