related posts
372 sats \ 5 replies \ @rijndael 3 Jun 2023
Its been done. It hasnt taken off.
Unless visa/mastercard cut off onlyfans, a lightning version will not be competitive.
Most of the people posting want dollars and probably dont care how the money gets to them. Most of the people paying have credit cards and dont know about or care about lightning.
People have credit cards and want to see content. People making the content are able to take credit cards via OF. Unless that changes, why would the content producers move to a platform with fewer potential buyers? Why would consumers move to a new payment method which is more expensive and more complicated when they already have something that works?
There have been a couple of sites launched that have been “onlyfans for lightning” (https://docs.starbackr.com/) and they haven’t worked out because they’re competing against something that works better for more people.
Onlyfans for lightning only makes sense if lightning makes kore economic sense for that market. Today, it does not.
reply
2 sats \ 0 replies \ @skreep_ 3 Jun 2023
I don't necessarily agree.
People who are "self employed" as "content creators" like OF but also twitch, youtube, patreon etc, rely on these centralized platforms in order to ensure their revenue stream into the future. They don't have to solely but often do just store most of their content on these platforms servers so they can have their past and future both rugged from them if they are banned.
These platforms have terms of services that are constantly moving the goal posts over time. One day, what they do might not be considered acceptable on their platform and then their tie to their revenue stream has been severed by a central authority.
Furthermore, I'm sure these platforms all take at least a little slice of every single pie, records and reports every cent you earn, and Lightning offers a whole other level of microtransactions that would change the game from mostly subscriptions to mostly pay per use... also haven't even mentioned privacy yet.
A lightning based OF/twitch/youtube could be beneficial for the content creator who sees a benefit in owning their own content, saving on platform fees, reducing chargebacks, conducting their business more privately, securing their future revenue stream etc.
It all just has to be designed top notch, which is a big ask.
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Jannostr 3 Jun 2023
Could be just another platform to use in tandem with what the 'creator' already usees. A supplementary more niche market. Why not post to both?
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rijndael 3 Jun 2023
People could but they dont. They dont think its worth it
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 3 Jun 2023
I remember a few years back a scene in the TV show Euphoria (Don't ask why I was watching) where an S&M cam girl would only accept bitcoin for her services.
reply
10 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 4 Jun 2023
That's fiction. Or because it had illegality / tax evasion vibes. In reality the content creators have zero interest in decentralization. They might even want to make their business/industry more socially accepted and normalized. This is why they strived towards even more centralized plattforms like OF
reply
243 sats \ 4 replies \ @BlokchainB 3 Jun 2023
I’m pretty sure if the prices of goods and services were denominated in sats and not dollars this would change on a dime.
People want dollars because the things they want and need are priced in dollars.
reply
50 sats \ 1 reply \ @rijndael 4 Jun 2023
lmao. If common goods and services were priced in bitcoin things would be very different
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 4 Jun 2023
Needs price discovery. How many Sats are you willing to pay for a gallon of water?
reply
50 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 4 Jun 2023
But that would be a great way for them to stack KYC-free sats.
Typically only a fraction of one's income goes into bills and other little stack-reducing necessary evils, the rest is sat stacking.
If you're making $300k on OF, it's better to get that in sats and sell let's say $25k worth for dollars to pay your everyday expenses, than to get $300k dollars and have to buy $275k worth of dirty KYC sats (or actually much less, because the mafia a.k.a. the state takes its cut).
The platform could also pay its employees in sats. And operate completely outside of the compliant economy, possibly in a jurisdiction that doesn't give a hoot.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 4 Jun 2023
I think this will work in the long run but now people just don’t care especially in the fast life of sex work. Not trying to talk in generalizations but think of the type of person who leaves a decently paying nursing job paying 5-7k a month to make 15k a month on OF selling themselves. I have a hard time believing they are thinking many years down the road thus the last thing they care about is getting BTC and can’t buy anything or use it anywhere.
reply
376 sats \ 6 replies \ @RdioActiv 3 Jun 2023
The porn industry is built off of Credit Card payments that are incredibly difficult to cancel. Lightning would cost them revenue.
reply
12 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jun 2023
Credit card payments are easily challenged. That's one of the reasons people use them. It is impossible to reverse a lightning payment. I agree it probably can't be the only payment method now, but it makes sense to offer the option.
reply
10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Jannostr 3 Jun 2023
Credit card charge backs are a massive problem for ordinary e-commerce retailers, so I imagine they are a huge problem for porn sites.
reply
10 sats \ 1 reply \ @RdioActiv 4 Jun 2023
Yes, but think of all the porn watchers that would be too embarrassed to call their credit card company. It's those customers that rake in the dough.
reply
10 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 4 Jun 2023
I imagine the possibility of a guy who uses the services, then claim the card details were stolen, and that he is a fraud victims. Especially if his wife starts questioning charges.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 3 Jun 2023
care to elaborate?
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiracDelta 3 Jun 2023
Interesting. Hadn't considered this, but would make sense that this could easily exceed the difference in fees & taxation.
reply
305 sats \ 0 replies \ @jeff 3 Jun 2023
Probably because the tech hasn't really been ready until 2023. It's borderline ready now.
I have a hunch that there would be a subset of husbands who might prefer the discrete nature of the billing on LN, over a mastercard/visa.
reply
392 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jun 2023
It makes complete sense. I can't believe the LN isn't the major payment method for porn by now.
reply
323 sats \ 2 replies \ @franzap 3 Jun 2023
OnlyFans is a disgrace for society. I would never build something like that
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @rijndael 4 Jun 2023
Nobody is asking you to
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 4 Jun 2023
I'm perfectly aware of that
reply
116 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jun 2023
My comment below was about porn and the LN, but I also think a lightning focused blogging/newsletter platform like substack makes sense for writers. I have looked into habla on nostr, but it's not there yet when it comes to editing and reach.
reply
41 sats \ 3 replies \ @skreep_ 3 Jun 2023
Nostr has like 2500 active daily users so I can imagine it does not have the reach yet, although that may be the correct platform to enable through this service with Bitcoin payments.
I keep saying, build it and they will come.
but, the incentives and UI must be there to convince them to switch.
reply
10 sats \ 1 reply \ @muu_pr 3 Jun 2023
Where do you draw these numbers from ?
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @skreep_ 3 Jun 2023
https://stats.nostr.band/
Closer to 10K weekly users (peak 26k) and 4.5K daily active users (peak 14K) after spam filter.
Both peaks shortly after Jack's donation, steady decline with a recent drop off in both categories
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rijndael 3 Jun 2023
deleted by author
reply
42 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 4 Jun 2023
The venn diagram crosssection of people who are into Bitcoin and content creators for OF is basically zero.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 4 Jun 2023
Substack on the other hand is exactly the kind of thing that has a large crosssection with people who are into Bitcoin.
If you think about it ... you know it's true
reply
22 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 3 Jun 2023
oh yeah?
Look at https://lightning.video ...
reply
30 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad 3 Jun 2023
I think Nostr would make the most sense. It already has LN as part of the protocol.
Cam models need a decentralized platform, not only decentralized money.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @godlikeXi 4 Jun 2023
A LN OnlyGlands could do and needs to do three things: (1) Educate NPCs to became BTC active users, (2) increase the user base of LN, and (3) support your favorite sex work content creators.
You have to show them how to do use LN to demonstrate to them the value and speed.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 4 Jun 2023
I find the idea distasteful, but porn is pretty much the killer app of the web...
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 4 Jun 2023
Which Bitcoiner wants their own daughter to be exposing herself on Onlyfans?
If you are fine with that, go build I guess.
reply
0 sats \ 13 replies \ @Majjin 3 Jun 2023
Let's not tempt people into wasting their sats on pornography.
reply
2 sats \ 12 replies \ @skreep_ 3 Jun 2023
bitcoin dies if no one spends it.
If you identify as a "bitcoiner" in any way, then you should want "bitcoin transactions" to take up a greater percentage of the "total global financial transactions" pie every single year that goes by, period.
I encourage builders to do everything they can to get regular people to receive and send money as bitcoin to each other in various ways for various reasons.
reply
21 sats \ 8 replies \ @Majjin 5 Jun 2023
Pornography is a horrible industry and the medium decays soul and body of the people who consume and produce it. We shouldn't encourage its use or creation. We can choose to promote constructive, good things to spend our money on instead. If that makes me no longer a "bitcoiner", I'm okay with that.
reply
0 sats \ 7 replies \ @skreep_ 5 Jun 2023
okay but if you support permissionless transacting between those who wish to make money and those who wish to spend money, then what are we complaining about here?
You can't make YouTube without creating the path for Pornhub to exist.
You won't be able to make a Lightning based Patreon without creating a lightning based OF. Should we never create a platform where supporters can interact and exchange value with content creators?
You can only become a centralized curator who determines what is or isn't allowed on your platform.
I get it, porn is degenerate, but to me, all the good things that can be achieved with lightning and bitcoin in general is much like "the head of the cat" and all the bad things and degeneracy that it could fuel is like "the ass of the cat". Different ends of the same spectrum that are completely interconnected and inseparable from one another.
I'm not personally pushing to spend my btc on porn, sounds like an awful plan, but someone else might send 1000 sat to see a picture, and who am I to tell anyone how to spend their money?? I might pay 1000 sat to read a well regarded newsletter and I don't care how anyone else feels about what I value, what I want to buy and who I choose to transact with. I'm also glad that I am transacting on a platform where no matter how much you do end up caring about this, you can stop me from hitting send.
reply
21 sats \ 6 replies \ @Majjin 6 Jun 2023
You're comment kinda implies that consent is the only metric of morality and ethics. You probably don't believe that is the case, but that's how it reads.
We have a responsibility to one another to discourage and shame immoral behavior, even if its consensual. At the very least we can choose to not encourage bad ideas. We can create YouTube and Patreon like platforms. Yes, it means that people have the means of creating Onlyfans and PornHub like platforms - Lord have mercy on them. However, we don't need to promote these things. We can make the good and abhor the evil at the same time.
reply
0 sats \ 5 replies \ @skreep_ 6 Jun 2023
Your comment implies morality or ethics are relevant in this discussion at all. Can you take your dumb religiously motivated censoring bullshit elsewhere please?
Go make a "Jesuscoin" that doesn't let other people do things you don't like if that's the kind of money you want to use but fuck off with that attitude when it comes to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin transactions are confirmed from sender to receiver. Whether it's morally or ethically sound transaction is none of my business (or yours) on a protocol level.
If you think you have some responsibility or duty to morally guide me or anyone outside of your family unit and close circles, then you're delusional, full stop.
Leave your subjectivity out of Bitcoin. If you want to preach against porn, paint a sign and stand by a busy road.
If you feel it is your duty to impose your thoughts and beliefs onto others, I would say your ass ain't welcome here but fortunately for you Bitcoin is a permissionless protocol and you can't be stopped from donating to some insane church like someone can't be stopped from sending sats for pornographic content... And that's why I'm here.
Porn and internet have been intertwined since probably literally day 1. You know a a nude was one of the first photos sent online. Don't be surprised when Bitcoin and porn get along too
reply
20 sats \ 4 replies \ @Majjin 6 Jun 2023
What I am saying is that we ought to promote and encourage good things and discourage bad things. If morality and ethics aren't relevant to this than what is? I say morality is very relevant if we're talking about a predatory industry such as porn.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Suppose that someone made a post about building a platform for human trafficking on top of Lightning. Assuming it isn't instantly removed, as it should be, would you not speak out against it?
I personally think you would. You seem to have a strong sense of justice.
reply
0 sats \ 3 replies \ @skreep_ 7 Jun 2023
You have me at "promote good things" and then lose me at "discourage bad things."
I acknowledge your right speak up about how you feel AND their right to trade with whom they choose for whatever they choose to without risk of censorship because their transaction it is not aligned someone's rules, ethics, morals...
I'm not interested in a hypothetical discussion of semantics, but I will answer as you seem interested in a productive conversation. I would,
a.) choose to have no involvement in developing a platform that is not aligned with my goals, morals, ethics in life, such as a lightning based HT platform.
b.) I would laugh at the idea all together as a visible immutable constantly verified public ledger is a silly place for anyone to be conducting transactions of such criminal magnitude.
c.) I would know that the harm done would be by the people who created such a system and not the money itself, and they are who are responsible and culpable for the harm done.
view replies
0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SantaNotSanta 5 Jun 2023
so if people keep buying and not spending, bitcoin dies?
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @skreep_ 5 Jun 2023
Yes.
Everything starts to unravel when there is no market for fees.
Please refer to 'Hoarding Fallacy' on page 34 and 'Reserve Currency Fallacy on page 75 of 'Cryptoeconomics" by Eric Voskuil available for free at voskuil.org
To put it most simply, the rules are enforced through ongoing trade.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SantaNotSanta 5 Jun 2023
appreciate the links, i will check those out. but import to point out theres a big difference between no market for fees and a strong market of long term buyers. it's not all or nothing
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @designsats 3 Jun 2023
I know I know, cucks arent based enough to have bitcoin
reply
1 sat \ 0 replies \ @designsats 3 Jun 2023
and yes, if you use Onlyfans I dont respect you
reply