Hard to stomach truths about Bitcoin \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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167 sats \ 8 comments \ @nout 17 Sep 2021 bitcoin

Bitcoin doesn't fix everything. "Everything fixed" is not a state you can ever be in. And you don't want to either.
Bitcoin is a software. It has bugs and it has critical bugs in all layers. There is no way around that.
Bitcoin will be used by the most oppressive regimes and by the most atrocious criminals as well as by the most pro freedom communities or organizations.
Bitcoin will be used by leftist/socialists, communists, nazis, but also by statists, liberals or anarchists. And that's a good thing.
Bitcoin doesn't result in everyone having an equal amount of money. There will be super rich people and they will be getting richer.
There are possible scenarios in which switching to Bitcoin ends really badly. If you can't see and comprehend those, you can't evaluate or understand the goals of what we are doing.
Kids will hate learning at school about Bitcoin. It will be boring. If you are "famous" now, kids will hate you later.
When someone tells you “it’s easy, Bitcoin is like…” No, it’s not. Bitcoin is not like any other thing and so instead you have to explore and learn its properties one by one.
Scaling is not something that can be done or enabled. Scaling is a never-ending fight.
What you think you know about Bitcoin now will be mostly wrong 10 years from now.
Bitcoin is still missing easy solutions for many life situations, including divorces, inheritances, deaths and similar. Large amount of BTC is and will be lost by people dying.
If Satoshi would set the initial block reward constant to 64 instead of 50, we would have 26.8 million coins instead.
There are other topics in life than Bitcoin.

70 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Sep 2021 freebie

Bitcoin is just a part of a journey that an individual can start towards his full sovereignty. The main part start by knowing who you really are https://livingintheprivate.blogspot.com Natural Law + Trust Law (UCC) + Common Law + Bitcoin = full sovereignty This is the formula you need to study and apply. I did it some time ago and works. Natural law is very simple and is universal:

do not do harm to others
do not steal
do not kill
do not lie

4 sats \ 3 replies \ @abetusk 17 Sep 2021

I think @nout is acting in good faith, so I don't want to beat up on them too much but I do want to point out that Bitcoin is meant to be a currency. It's like saying the invention/discovery/usage of 0 doesn't fix everything or that the transition from unary numerals (Roman numerals) to base-10 (Hindu-Arabic) doesn't fix everything. Yeah, we know, but compared to what we were using, it provides a foundation that we just didn't have before.

Point by point:

Bitcoin doesn't fix everything. "Everything fixed" is not a state you can ever be in. And you don't want to either.

The invention of money didn't solve everything. Bitcoin won't wither. Bitcoin solves a subset of problems that involve providing a digital, global and decentralized currency.

Bitcoin is a software. It has bugs and it has critical bugs in all layers. There is no way around that.

Except that Bitcoin is transparent about it. Any "bugs" in the fiat currency system or swept over or hidden from the public.

Bitcoin will be used by the most oppressive regimes and by the most atrocious criminals as well as by the most pro freedom communities or organizations.

Just like fiat.

Bitcoin will be used by leftist/socialists, communists, nazis, but also by statists, liberals or anarchists. And that's a good thing.

Just like fiat.

Bitcoin doesn't result in everyone having an equal amount of money. There will be super rich people and they will be getting richer.

Just like fiat.

There are possible scenarios in which switching to Bitcoin ends really badly. If you can't see and comprehend those, you can't evaluate or understand the goals of what we are doing.

True.

Kids will hate learning at school about Bitcoin. It will be boring. If you are "famous" now, kids will hate you later.

That's why communities like SN are sprouting up, so like minded individuals have a space to talk about their passion.

When someone tells you “it’s easy, Bitcoin is like…” No, it’s not. Bitcoin is not like any other thing and so instead you have to explore and learn its properties one by one.

Different people access new technology in different way. One person might be satisfied with "Bitcoin is digital currency", another might focus on the decentralized aspect of it while another might focus on the mathematical or eceonomic underpinnings. Read the room and try to present it to people where they're at instead of expecting them to come to you.

Scaling is not something that can be done or enabled. Scaling is a never-ending fight.

As far as I understand, true.

What you think you know about Bitcoin now will be mostly wrong 10 years from now.

Really? Can you say the same about the internet? CPU architecture? Things evolve but their are some fundamentals.

Bitcoin is still missing easy solutions for many life situations, including divorces, inheritances, deaths and similar. Large amount of BTC is and will be lost by people dying.

And everyday use...

If Satoshi would set the initial block reward constant to 64 instead of 50, we would have 26.8 million coins instead.

???

There are other topics in life than Bitcoin.

Stacker News: A better place to discuss Bitcoin.

2 sats \ 2 replies \ @nout OP 17 Sep 2021

Thank you going through the points and replying thoughtfully with clarifications! I also appreciate that you took my post in a good faith, which was indeed my intention :)

I wrote the post with excitement and I believe together with the community Bitcoin has a power to change many things for the better, it has the power to fight rigged systems and introduce fairness across the board. If we re-read our points I think we agree with each other almost on all of it, which is a good sign :)

Some replies

What you think you know about Bitcoin now will be mostly wrong 10 years from now. Really? Can you say the same about the internet? CPU architecture? Things evolve but their are some fundamentals. Very much agreed that there are core fundamentals that stay true over time and that's why I conveniently injected "mostly" there. Sometimes it's harder to see those and especially in its infancy the technologies change really rapidly, so it's not that clear which fundamentals apply. I remember the difference between first using web around 1995 and in 2005. And that would be the type of difference I have in mind here.

If Satoshi would set the initial block reward constant to 64 instead of 50, we would have 26.8 million coins instead. ??? This was to highlight that 21M coins is just a nicely picked number and it doesn't by itself hold larger significance. The first block reward was set to 50 BTC by Satoshi. If Satoshi would say that the first reward should be set to 64 BTC instead, which is something that any software developer would probably do, then we would end up with 26.8 million coins instead. 21M has a little better sound to it.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @abetusk 17 Sep 2021

Yes, absolutely, and I think the points listed are valid, if not to discuss ourselves but also to make sure we have good counterpoints for when we get asked those points. Maybe I came off as too snarky but part of my intent was to give the beginnings of counterpoints for others who run into these same points.

... I remember the difference between first using web around 1995 and in 2005. And that would be the type of difference I have in mind here.

Fair enough and as do I, but sockets still work, the unix command line still functions. etc. The path from then to now, or even just a 10 year timespan, made things more accessible, easier to install and easier to experiment with. Things evolve but they don't, at least in my opinion, become unrecognizable.

This was to highlight that 21M coins is just a nicely picked number and it doesn't by itself hold larger significance. ...

Maybe you're responding to some hype you've been exposed that I haven't. I just recently saw some old post about why 21M was picked, so there's an interesting question of whether there was any significance in 21, either from an economic or mathematical perspective, in addition the more fundamental question of whether having a fixed amount of Bitcoin is good practice in the first place.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @nout OP 17 Sep 2021

I'm a bit surprised that no one in that post highlights that with 50 BTC reward the total just ends up being a nice number that is rounded to millions (almost): https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28sum+210000*%28%2850*10%5E8%29%2F2%5En%29+n%3D0+to+32+%29+%2F+10%5E8 . Yeah, I have seen people having some amount of hype around this magical number...

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @gmd 17 Sep 2021

Great post. Bitcoin is sound, hard money and that’s it. Owning some doesn’t make you some genius or improve your personality. It’s not going to fix this broken world or lead to nirvana. Too many people treat their favorite crypto asset like a religious cult.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @bob 17 Sep 2021 freebie

A lot of these are truths about money not Bitcoin specifically and while they might be hard to stomach, I think Bitcoin contributes to a lot of people more and more having to confront these truths about money.

I like stressing that Bitcoin is neutral money, and that if you understand how biased economic systems based on fiat currency are, it's obvious that while money isn't everything, the form of money adopted by societies largely determines the state of human civilization and enlightenment. Bitcoin fixes "everything" is not to be taken literally, but it's not far off either.

If Satoshi would set the initial block reward constant to 64 instead of 50, we would have 26.8 million coins instead. If the point is that these numbers are arbitrary and we shouldn't treat them as special, I totally agree. If the block reward was double and the limit was 42 million, "1 bitcoin" would simply be worth half the price it is today. It wouldn't change the market cap in terms of US dollars, and it wouldn't affect the purchasing power of any specific percentage of the total supply. In fact the only thing that would change is the ability to spend to the equivalent of .5 satoshi granularity in today's terms, all other things being equal.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cozy 17 Sep 2021

I agree, to simplify, I see it as:

Problems are inevitable, problems are soluble.

Bitcoin is not exempt from this aspect of reality. See also: https://fallibleideas.com/problems