I don't know much about Udi. From what I have seen he's a clown and one of a handful of anti-maxi. Anti-maxis who seem to be fixated on a certain type of bitcoiner.
@kr what is so interesting about this article? I'm curious. I started reading it but it just sounds like the same old complaints that sound like the typical progressive Twitter addict that can't imagine a community where people have a few heterodox views as well as views that have been pretty common for the last 100 years.
This quote is the tell.
controversial ideas such as: carnivory, pro-gun, anti-woke, Christianity, anti-modern art and anti-vax.
People like Udi apparently just can't handle people that don't fit in the standard mold they have in their minds. Christianity is a "controversial idea". LOL.
Another funny pattern I see in this post is something I've noticed in small p politics. People create this image of their opponent which is a gross oversimplification. As if there is uniform agreement. The best example in this post is Saylor. Plenty of maxis do not like Saylor. Plenty do not like his digital energy analogy. I like it. And as usual with analogies the criticism shows a misunderstanding of the idea. The idea of money as a battery to store your life energy is a fine one. The idea of bitcoin being the best tool to do this really helps explain its utility.
When I hear the complaints of people like Udi and then I see the way they carry themselves the affect on me is the opposite of what they desire. I think, yeah these people don't really get why we need bitcoin. Bitcoin needs to be hard to change. Bitcoin needs to focus on the main thing. These other things are distractions from the core utility of bitcoin. We need good money. We need a place to store our wealth, no matter how big or small. We need censorship resistance.
I've already spent to much time on this probably but I honestly am curious what you find interesting about this @kr.
i think there is an element of truth in most of the points mentioned, and it’s helpful to get nuanced views that can’t easily be expressed in back-and-forth twitter battles.
maybe bitcoiners do spend too much time saying the same talking points again and again. as an anecdote that’s certainly a valid criticism of my podcast, i can’t remember the last time i had someone disagree with me in the comments or on the show… perhaps it’s an echo chamber.
maybe bitcoiners are overconfident and could accelerate bitcoin adoption by getting down to work on solving problems rather than assuming success is inevitable (even if it is).
my challenge to you (and others reading this) is to see if you can steelman Udi’s perspective in the comments here, I think in writing a comprehensive steelman you’ll find you agree with him on many things.
Yes, all valid points. But to this article. Its all stuff we've heard over and over again. I guess I would say there are much bigger issues than these issues. Nothing about this to me is bitcoin specific. Its just our culture and human nature.
Too much talk: Yeah, have you looked at politics, sports, and entertainment? This criticism is elitist and kinda like the communist criticism of capitalism. To much choice.
Too boring: Very few people have new ideas. Most copy.
Overconfidence: Again have you looked at politics?
I don't care about the first one accept for me personally. I want to be progressing.
I could TLDR this and say. Most people don't think for themselves. We are highly influenced and crowd oriented. Nothing strange about bitcoin people in that regard. This is to be expected. What I see as a pattern in these types of posts is a frustrated person who in any other popular community would be in the majority but in bitcoin they feel like they are in the out group.
I've said this elsewhere but it bears repeating. I have a theory that bitcoiners "suffer" from something I can only call underdog mentality. Because bitcoin IS heterodoxical it attracts many with non-traditional views. These folks (me included) have lived as the folks with the out of the norm or "wacky" views. Underdogs that suddenly find a place where they are not the minority will tend to be very loud and opinionated. I remember seeing this as a Mac user back before Apple was cool in pop culture. Mac people would act like they were still the underdog when they aren't.
The inverse of this is the alpha group thrust into a group where they aren't in the majority. They tend to really have an issue with it and lash out. You see this on the Internet outside of bitcoin in different communities when the "normal" views are in the minority within the group. There is probably some sociologist that could explain this better but this helps me understand where both sides are coming from and why I may react the way I do.
My advice for people like Udi and maxis is you be you. This "toxic" culture will run its course. If bitcoin wins everyone will be using it and using it ways you will not support. They won't understand the why behind it. They will still think dumb things you disagree with.
I question anyone's logic that thinks in order for bitcoin to win we have to convince people to hold our views on a majority of issues. The better money will win. This is why I want bitcoiners to focus on its core value.
Yeah, I don't know much about Udi. From what I have seen I'm not surprised he is pissed. He seems like a clown to me. Maybe that is persona. It doesn't really matter what I think about him and really bitcoin isn't conscience so I question why I spend so much time talking about the culture of bitcoin. I suspect in 25 years there won't be a "bitcoin" culture. It will be invisible like water and air to us. We will depend on it but rarely discuss it.
I think culture warrants thinking about. Wrt btc specifically, there's a smallish number of actors who create the entire ecosystem that is btc. If you make that ecosystem a horrible place to be, where people are afraid to voice opinions, fear litigation for doing work, and get harassed all the time, you reap the fruits of that.
Btc is not such a force of nature -- certainly not in this phase of its lifecycle -- when being filled with assholes and bad actors and parrots and sycophants and grifters of various stripes won't influence what happens for the worse.
There is obviously not a Ministry of Culture or anything overseeing all this, but there are smaller cultures, like SN, and what people do, and how they behave, is consequential.
I think one thing that annoys me is the group mentality. As if bitcoiners are some group that think as a group. And we need to do something about that. Well bitcoin is probably the least group think group I've ever seen. "Do your own research" is a mantra. But come to think of it, I don't hear that as much as I used to.
Maybe someone not butt hurt should write something about the problems of the bitcoin community. Oh my, bitcoiners hold views that aren't politically correct! Oh my! Heaven forbid someone hold a view that is not in line with every corporation in the US.
I think people give him attention because he's super thoughtful, has really interesting ideas informed by deep technical expertise, and isn't afraid to rock the boat. That's why I like him.
No he's fucking not! All of his whining amounts to "Why don't the Bitcoin maxis attack us for minting tokens we can sell to people?" and then he uses the usual mentally disconnected justifications for this. Shit like "tech neutral innovation" and "the maxis are just close minded"
He's literally just kicking and screaming and whining about a very simple minded thing.
I’ve spoken with him once on my podcast and really enjoyed the conversation. For a while it was my most popular episode too, so I suppose listeners also really enjoyed it.
too much talk
too boring
overconfidence in bitcoin’s success